34 Andrei Rublev

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ando
Bringing Out El Duende
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#476 Post by ando » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:11 pm

ThomasPashko wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:22 pm
Here's a weird question, and apologies if this has been answered in the preceding years of this thread:

So, I recently picked up the new Criterion Blu-ray, and am listening to the selected scene commentaries by Vlada Petric (these were recorded in 1998 for the old edition, but I never listened to them very attentively on that disc). In the scene where we see the crucifixion/passion play in the snow, Petric repeatedly refers to Christ in this scene as "Kirill." Are we supposed to infer that this is a passion play where Jesus is played by the ex-monk Kirill (Ivan Lapikov)!? If so, that changes the meaning of this scene pretty drastically, but I don't think that's right. The actor on screen has similarly styled hair and beard to Kirill, but it doesn't look like Lapikov to me. Also, IMDb lists the actor Igor Donskoy as playing "Khristos" (Christ), and I can't think of anyone that could refer to other than the Christ in the crucifixion/passion play. Is Petric just wrong here? Or am I misunderstanding what he's saying?
You're right; Petric does refer to Donskoy as Kirill. When I picked up the latest edition of Rublev I deliberately avoided the Petric commentary as I found it wooden, redundant and rather laborsome when I initially listened to it on the older one. He also tends read overtly Christian symbolism into scenes that, to my mind, are most potent in their spiritual ambiguity.

One thing I noticed, more with the latest edition for some reason, is Tarkovsky's habit of tossing birds in front of the camera when "establishing" a scene. Somewhere I read that T did this in an overhead shot of a village center just to give the view some perspective. But he also does this when Rublev begins to spy on the pagan night ritual where this rationale seems unnecessary.

ari101
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#477 Post by ari101 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 pm

connor wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:02 pm
Roscoe wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:58 pm
connor wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:44 pm

I've been avoiding this film actually due to this scene, which sounds pretty horrifying. Is it included in the 185 minute cut?
The first half of the shot is in the current Director's Cut version, showing the horse falling off a flight of stairs. The horse is bleeding very badly, clearly gravely wounded. The full length shot, in THE PASSION OF ANDREI, continues after the fall, and goes on to a much more graphic picture of the horse's actual demise. It's not for the faint of heart. It's easily skipped, if you know what to watch out for.
Ironically, scenes like that just serve to take me out of the film, imaginatively speaking. The opposite of the intended effect.
I take your point but for me the film suffers without the cut violence. I love Rublev, and also Stalker, but they are 'hard going' experiences, and the violent scenes jar so much that they leaven the viewing.

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aox
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#478 Post by aox » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:31 am

What is exactly is comparable in Stalker to that (horse) scene in AR?

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colinr0380
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#479 Post by colinr0380 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:02 am

ando wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:11 pm
One thing I noticed, more with the latest edition for some reason, is Tarkovsky's habit of tossing birds in front of the camera when "establishing" a scene. Somewhere I read that T did this in an overhead shot of a village center just to give the view some perspective. But he also does this when Rublev begins to spy on the pagan night ritual where this rationale seems unnecessary.
Amusingly it even occurs in an abstract form during the Bruegel scene in Solaris!

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solaris72
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#480 Post by solaris72 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:21 am

Wouldn't surprise me if the birds were something specifically inspired by Bruegel, a lot of the mise-en-scene in Rublev feels not too far afield from Bruegel.

moreorless
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#481 Post by moreorless » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:04 am

ando wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:11 pm
One thing I noticed, more with the latest edition for some reason, is Tarkovsky's habit of tossing birds in front of the camera when "establishing" a scene. Somewhere I read that T did this in an overhead shot of a village center just to give the view some perspective. But he also does this when Rublev begins to spy on the pagan night ritual where this rationale seems unnecessary.
There is obviously a strong link between the natural world and the story in Andrei Rublev and I'd say the "bird shot" ends up having different intensions at different points. The Pagan scene for example I felt helped create a more dreamlike atmosphere and perhaps playing up the link between the them and the woodland around them being roused by their ceremony. The slow mo shot during the tartar raid though has ducks used and I think plays up the sense of panic with their struggling to fly not in their preferred environment.

serdar002
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#482 Post by serdar002 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:48 am

JM2L has analyzed the differences of original and director's cut

https://serdar0024.wordpress.com/2019/1 ... tarkovsky/

P.S. He now tells me that what's missing is the analysis of the sound differences which are considerable. But he doesn't have the equipment for it
Last edited by serdar002 on Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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swo17
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#483 Post by swo17 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:44 pm

Nice, thanks for sharing!

Calvin
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#484 Post by Calvin » Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:46 am

Andrei Rublev is one of the films that Mosfilm have put up on their YouTube channel in 4K UHD

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solaris72
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#485 Post by solaris72 » Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:22 am

Calvin wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:46 am
Andrei Rublev is one of the films that Mosfilm have put up on their YouTube channel in 4K UHD
I'm skeptical. The transfer they provided to Criterion was not 4k and I'm dubious they made a new one since then for streaming. I've seen a number of "4k" films on the Mosfilm youtube channel that were definite upscales.

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tenia
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#486 Post by tenia » Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:28 pm

It seems they're having War and Peace in 4k there too, but Criterion's specs were 2k restoration and I doubt there's been a newer one since this release (though maybe I missed it).

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#487 Post by yoloswegmaster » Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:33 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if they were just upscaling the 2K restorations to 4K. A lot of the Fortune Star titles that have received 2K restorations show up on iTunes as 4K with Dolby Vision.

solaris72 wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:22 am
I'm skeptical. The transfer they provided to Criterion was not 4k and I'm dubious they made a new one since then for streaming. I've seen a number of "4k" films on the Mosfilm youtube channel that were definite upscales.
The transfer that Criterion used for the blu release isn't even the restored version. They originally said they were going to use the 2K restorations but then they quietly changed the specs to the old HD master.

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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#488 Post by bobbymilk » Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:36 am

solaris72 wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:22 am
Calvin wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:46 am
Andrei Rublev is one of the films that Mosfilm have put up on their YouTube channel in 4K UHD
I'm skeptical. The transfer they provided to Criterion was not 4k and I'm dubious they made a new one since then for streaming. I've seen a number of "4k" films on the Mosfilm youtube channel that were definite upscales.
You're right, it's the same HD restoration from 2004 that Criterion used, says so in the end credits. While uploading these upscales as 4K may be justifiable due to YouTube's compression being less terrible in 4K vs 1080p, putting these "4K" banners is not.
The interesting thing is that Andrei Rublev actually has been recently restored in 4K and it's the longer cut, The Passion According to Andrei. It premiered on TV in August and will be shown in Russian cinemas in November, probably not any time soon in the US for obvious reasons. (both links in Russian)

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T!me
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#489 Post by T!me » Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:46 pm

The longer cut was now also made available by Mosfilm "in 4k" two days ago: https://youtu.be/VUk3XfP_hUc

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M-A
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#490 Post by M-A » Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:23 pm

It did actually receive a 4K restoration recently

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solaris72
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#491 Post by solaris72 » Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:33 pm

The Venice Classics lineup includes the following:
Andrei Rublev – Director’s Cut
By Andrei Tarkovsky (USSR, 1966, 191 minutes, Color/B/W)
Restored by: Istituto Internazionale Andrei Tarkovsky in collaboration with Coevolutions and Cloudpost
According to a blu-ray forum poster, this is a new cut prepared by Tarkovsky's son. Supposedly the son talks about it in this youtube video, but it's in Italian.

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ando
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#492 Post by ando » Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:19 pm

solaris72 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:33 pm
…According to a blu-ray forum poster, this is a new cut prepared by Tarkovsky's son. Supposedly the son talks about it in this youtube video, but it's in Italian.
Thanks. Though it looks like the Italian speaking panel is actually discussing a restoration of Nostalghia, which makes sense as that film was shot in Italy.

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solaris72
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#493 Post by solaris72 » Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:32 pm

ando wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:19 pm
solaris72 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:33 pm
…According to a blu-ray forum poster, this is a new cut prepared by Tarkovsky's son. Supposedly the son talks about it in this youtube video, but it's in Italian.
Thanks. Though it looks like the Italian speaking panel is actually discussing a restoration of Nostalghia, which makes sense as that film was shot in Italy.
Yeah- they said that the Rublev cut was mentioned at the start of the video, but no idea if that's true.

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ando
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#494 Post by ando » Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:24 pm

Robin Milner-Gulland has a new book on Rublev and recently published an article on Putin's role in the fate of Rublev's Old Testament Trinity.

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