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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
Location: Great Falls, Montana
Have you read the Wolverine comics Ribs? In one of the ones that loosely inspired the film he's eaten by The Hulk, regenerates and then claws his way out of him and kills him by tearing him apart from the inside. There is absolutely basis for the violence and gore. Wolverine is essentially the mutant equivalent of a Berserker in the comics and there has most certainly been graphic violence in Wolverine comics for over thirty years. The earlier films are the ones not true to Wolverine. He was very clearly edited down to fit into the more profitable at the time PG-13 market. Logan felt a lot like a deconstruction of those earlier films which ranged from okay to terrible in my opinion.

NSFW:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
But in the franchise, this sudden graphic aspect that was nowhere to be seen seems a bit jarring, almost like a tonality gap with the previous movies.
And in a way, that's not very useful and the movie certainly could have been "mature" enough without this. Nolan's Batman seemee more adult to me, and all 3 were PG 13.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
That's perhaps the biggest reason why the Nolan movies are the best for me. They struck a really tight balance between elements based in realism and flights of fancy, without ever going completely overboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC
On the soundtrack for Black Panther, Yugen Blakrok hilariously name drops the Batman comics on “Opps,” and of course, someone decided to bleep 'Riddler.'

Spit slick, attack is subliminal
Flowers on my mind, but the rhyme style sinister
Stand behind my own bars, like a seasoned criminal
Gotham City streets, I’ll play the Riddler


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm
Big Ben wrote:
Wolverine is essentially the mutant equivalent of a Berserker in the comics and there has most certainly been graphic violence in Wolverine comics for over thirty years.

At first Wolverine was a berserker with no qualms about killing people, but this was toned down early on in his history after the Dark Phoenix Saga. Claremont and Byrne originally intended Jean Grey to survive that event, but after putting out an issue where Jean (in her Dark Phoenix guise) destroys an inhabited planet, Editor in Chief Jim Shooter made the famous declaration "Superheroes don't kill". Of course, this ignores the fact that Wolverine was happily slicing up Hellfire Club goons mere issues before, so soon after a story appeared where Storm, as leader at the time, told Wolverine to reign in his homicidal tendencies. This largely stuck for the next few decades, and some of the best Wolverine stories, including his first limited series, revolve him overcoming his nature and taming the beast within.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
Location: Great Falls, Montana
The restrictions on violence were not in Universe and were very much mandated by Fox Studios. Violence, war and decapitation (See the rather awful Origins film which has all three.) were all there beforehand they simply had to be obscured for ratings purposes. If anything Logan is simply more honest about that reality (As real as a comic book film can be.). Logan is still a genre film through and through and just because it happens to be significantly more self aware than its' predecessors doesn't strip away those underpinnings. Just because the film is significantly more violent doesn't really mark a tonal shift in my personal opinion but rather an acceptance of what it always should have been. If Fox Studios could have made beaucoup bucks on R rated fair way back when they most certainly would have. A reminder that a far more violent version of The Wolverine exists. The studio simply decided to market the PG-13 version. The site is NSFW due to shot comparisons.

If you want to be really depressed though try debating if Logan takes place in the same timeline as the other films or if it takes place in an entirely different Universe and is a stand alone film as Hugh Jackman has suggested. People are still arguing about this right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
I dont know how the Wolverine TC compares to the EC cut, but the additions certainly didnt transfigure the movie at all. I was told the movie was at least quite OK and relatively fun, but oh god what a boring drag it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
Location: Great Falls, Montana
I'll readily confess to my belief that the only X-Men film worth any meter of critical discussion is Logan. I was ten when the original film came out and I was wowed with it only because I was ten. Going through all the films in preparation for Logan really cemented in my mind that these were baseline okay to awful films with cast members that absolutely correct for the part but were woefully underused (Patrick Stewart for instance.) with scripts that were occasionally defecated out.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
They are really, really comic book movies in a way that's very satisfying and won't be replicated, probably. The Wolverine is the truth, for one, but I've also really enjoyed the entire semi-reboot trilogy; I just find Logan's relationship to the other films to actually be the most engaging part of it, how it's simultaneously trying to be this grand send-off to this theoretical icon but it seems to deeply shun every single last thing about the character before that point. The X-Men films, somewhat amusingly, were never really built as anything more than single films; to almost comic effect, the "tag" at the end of every film seemed to set up something that was not followed upon whatsoever, and important characters just disappeared without mention. To see Logan try to be an endpoint to that styling is kind of commendable, but it didn't work for me, other than the very ending, which only works due to the fact there were 6 previous Wolverine-centered films that everyone more-or-less admired Jackman in.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
I vastly prefer First Class, and then X2.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm
If you saw Black Panther this weekend, I think this criticism is worth your time.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
His point was undermined with his initial tweet saying Coogler has made Do the Right Thing as a major successful studio film... seemingly forgetting Spike Lee did just that in 1989.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
Location: Atlanta-ish
Luke M wrote:
If you saw Black Panther this weekend, I think this criticism is worth your time.

Thanks for posting that. Here's a rather more criticial take, though it's a little hot take-y for me. I saw Black Panther this morning and enjoyed it a great deal, so I'm decidedly more receptive to the link you posted, but figured it'd be interesting to add a competing viewpoint.

This film arrives at a particularly fraught moment, and so we're going to see more reviews than usual freighted with their particular authors' cultural politics. And it's not like the film itself doesn't invite those kinds of reviews.


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 Post subject: Re: Comic Books on Film
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:50 pm
Luke M wrote:
If you saw Black Panther this weekend, I think this criticism is worth your time.


Quote:
I briefly talked to a young someone who was sympathetic, but didn’t understand the lavish praise that was being heaped on Black Panther. Why? Because it just didn’t work for him! It just wasn’t that good! Sure, he could connect to all the logistical reasons people might connect to it. Sure, he could see how it’s “good” to see black heroes in action. But the effect just wasn’t up on screen for him! Meaning people must just be liking the movie for ulterior X or Y reasons!

.....Not next to the incalculable value of the aforementioned representation, like the fact that the smartest tech whiz in the world is a young African princess who quotes vines and could probably run laps around Tony Stark. Not next to the range of characters and motives and perspectives rarely seen in any films, let alone within a cast of ten (TEN!) amazing black actors who are getting to headline a major studio superhero film.


How is this not liking something for “ulterior X or Y reasons?” And that comment about white teens is a massive can of worms I don’t really want to touch but offers the same kind of oblivious hypocrisy.


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