Sátántangó (Béla Tarr, 1994)

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kazantzakis
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#26 Post by kazantzakis » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:29 pm

I saw one in "Harmonies" when the two men walk side by side for 10min or so and the camera focuses on their faces filmed in profile. Same shot in Gerry.

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denti alligator
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#27 Post by denti alligator » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:52 pm

kazantzakis wrote:I saw one in "Harmonies" when the two men walk side by side for 10min or so and the camera focuses on their faces filmed in profile. Same shot in Gerry.
Hadn't thought of that, but yes, now it's obvious.
I was thinking of the scene where the Irimias and his cohort are walking down the street and all that trash and paper is blowing by them. It's repeated later in the rain.
This is duplicated in Gerry (though for a much shorter period of time) when we track the Gerrys from the back as they walk ahead and away from us with tumbleweeds blowing by them.

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toiletduck!
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#28 Post by toiletduck! » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:51 pm

From the Program for the European Union Film Festival at the Gene Siskel Film Center in Chicago:

FALLEN
(KRISANA)
2005, Fred Kelemen, Latvia/Germany, 90 min.
With Egons Dombrovskis, Nikolaj Korobov

In this unsettling existential mystery (with echoes of VERTIGO and BLOWUP), a man sees a woman poised on the edge of a bridge, walks on by, and hears a splash. Driven by guilt, he turns detective, collecting letters, photos, and interviews to reconstruct the woman's life and possible motives for suicide. A disciple of Béla Tarr (whose magnum opus SATANTANGO comes to the Film Center in November), Kelemen uses lengthy camera movements, gritty b&w cinematography, and dense ambient sound to fashion a richly textured portrait of both the city of Riga and its haunted explorer. In Latvian with English subtitles. 35mm print courtesy of Fred Kelemen. (MR)


Count me one happy little bathroom cleanser.

-Toilet Dcuk

AK
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:06 am

#29 Post by AK » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:47 pm

Edit: Didn't read carefully, thus missed the post written by denti alligator, already pointing out what I just wrote. As a sidenote, it would make one experience to see Sátántangó and Gerry back-to-back.

With best regards,
AK

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tavernier
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#30 Post by tavernier » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:05 pm

Coming to Brooklyn's BAMcinematek:
BELA TARR, FEBRUARY 2007
FILMS INCLUDE: three works written by László Krasznahorkai, DAMNATION (1988); WERCKMEISTER HARMONIES (2000); and SATANTANGO (1994)

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miless
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:45 pm

#31 Post by miless » Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:52 am

In Portland, Oregon, the NW Film Center is bringing Sátántangó (Nov. 25,26), Werckmeister Harmonies (Nov. 29,30) and Damnation (Nov. 19,23).
I'm definitely going to make it to each film.
I urge anyone living in the Portland area to do the same

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franco
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#32 Post by franco » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:26 pm

For Vancouver people, this movie plays at VIFC on December 23rd. With their chairs, sitting through the film shouldn't be a problem.

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Michael
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#33 Post by Michael » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:09 pm

Received Satantango this morning. For those of you who wish to order the AE disc in the US, exploitedcinema.com has it in stock now. Sure, it's expensive but still cheaper than Facets. I just made through the first half of Santatango. My ass was killing me so I had to stop and take a quick jog. I will probably finish the rest tonight or tomorrow morning. I can now see why just about everyone has a difficulty in describing or explaining the film. It's not a film, it's an experience. It's just something you have to experience and no word could justify Satantango. It's a complete universe on its own. I love how the dreamy darkness of Satantango slowly enveloped me, seducing me to get lost into it.. and once I got myself pulled out of it, the colors, the sun and everything around me looked ridiculous and surreal. It's a very visually gorgeous film. And as for the narrative, I'll wait till I finish watching it.

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Subbuteo
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#34 Post by Subbuteo » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:22 pm

Ditto. I put in on this afternoon and reached about half way. I must confess I was numb for the first 20 minutes and was convinced this was not for me...However, further perseverance and I was hooked, I intend to watch the second half tomorrow. I just wish that I could watch this on the big screen... but by christ I would need a sofa to stretch out on to endure this epic!

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

#35 Post by zedz » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:52 pm

Aha! New converts. I think if you 'get' the episode with the doctor and the plum brandy (chapter 3? - one of the most magnificent stretches of film I know) you'll be hooked. Plotwise, the second half is quite different from the first - all of the strands come together. Look out for the amazing owl-zoom!

The first time I saw this on the big screen, a couple sitting directly in front of me left noisily halfway through the first shot (maybe not quite the first shot: the one with the cows). It makes me wonder what they were expecting out of a seven hour movie, but clearly this is a film that can send some people up the wall very quickly.

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Michael
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#36 Post by Michael » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:49 pm

----
Last edited by Michael on Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

marty

#37 Post by marty » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:41 pm

zedz wrote:Aha! New converts. I think if you 'get' the episode with the doctor and the plum brandy (chapter 3? - one of the most magnificent stretches of film I know) you'll be hooked. Plotwise, the second half is quite different from the first - all of the strands come together. Look out for the amazing owl-zoom!

The first time I saw this on the big screen, a couple sitting directly in front of me left noisily halfway through the first shot (maybe not quite the first shot: the one with the cows). It makes me wonder what they were expecting out of a seven hour movie, but clearly this is a film that can send some people up the wall very quickly.
That's funny because I am constantly amazed at some moviegoers who pay to see a 7-hour B&W Hungarian film and then leave after the first 15 minutes. What were they expecting?

Recently, a local cinema was having an Antonioni retrospective and I was waiting in line to get tickets for their evening screening of L'Eclisse. The couple in front were getting tickets for The Devil Wears Prada when the cashier informed them the film had already started. They then asked which film was about to start and the cashier told them it was L'Eclisse so they bought tickets for that. Anyway, I made sure I sat behind them to see how long they would last. They lasted about ten minutes into the first scene where Monica Vitti is breaking up with her boyfriend.

I checked Amazon UK and they have dispatched my copy of AE's Satantango. Should be here next week. Can't wait!

spencerw
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#38 Post by spencerw » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:32 am

toiletduck! wrote:From the Program for the European Union Film Festival at the Gene Siskel Film Center in Chicago:

FALLEN
(KRISANA)
2005, Fred Kelemen, Latvia/Germany, 90 min.
It's indeed an interesting film, less stylised perhaps than his earlier work. There's an interesting interview with the director here

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Highway 61
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:40 pm

#39 Post by Highway 61 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:38 pm

Can anyone recommend a good primer on Tarr? I'll be seeing Sátántangó, Werckmeister Harmonies, and Damnation in the next couple of weeks, although I fully expect them to fly right over my head. If anyone could point me in the direction of an article or two that would make the films more accessible and rewarding, I would greatly appreciate it.

Titus
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#40 Post by Titus » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:47 pm

Highway 61 wrote:Can anyone recommend a good primer on Tarr? I'll be seeing Sátántangó, Werckmeister Harmonies, and Damnation in the next couple of weeks, although I fully expect them to fly right over my head. If anyone could point me in the direction of an article or two that would make the films more accessible and rewarding, I would greatly appreciate it.
Rosenbaum's overview of his work -- pre-Werckmeister Harmonies -- is good reading, though it's as much political venting as analysis.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

#41 Post by zedz » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:23 pm

Highway 61 wrote:Can anyone recommend a good primer on Tarr? I'll be seeing Sátántangó, Werckmeister Harmonies, and Damnation in the next couple of weeks, although I fully expect them to fly right over my head. If anyone could point me in the direction of an article or two that would make the films more accessible and rewarding, I would greatly appreciate it.
If you can't find anything appropriate or helpful, don't be worried about diving right in. I'm sure many of us came to Tarr cold (simply because there was nothing much written about him when Satantango was first doing the rounds), and the films work perfectly well as immersive aesthetic experiences and involving narratives (albeit eccentric and etiolated ones). There's plenty to see and appreciate without preparation, and their 'difficulty' is more on the aesthetic level (slow pacing, visual patterning that it might take some time to notice, the reconciliation of conflicting timelines) than in terms of the kind of referential or symbolic obscurity that challenges first viewings of, say, Jancsco's films (in which symbolic or historical readings may be far more to the point than traditional character-focussed narrative ones).

Of the three ahead of you, I'll be bold and suggest tackling Satantango first: a bracing, icy blast of what he's all about to get you acclimatised. Damnation is OK in its own right, but I found it most interesting in the light of the following features. I don't know that it would make the best starting point.

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Highway 61
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#42 Post by Highway 61 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:46 pm

I don't have much of a choice, the Portland Art Museum has Damnation booked first. But it's a relief to hear that Tarr's films are aestheticly driven. For probably all the wrong reasons, I've been under the assumption that Santango would be a politically charged, seven hour Chris Markeresque film.

And to Titus, thanks very much for the link, quite informative.

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Gropius
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:47 pm

#43 Post by Gropius » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:12 am

Interesting that you should be apprehensive about Tarr being excessively political. I'm still not sure what I make of him at this point (was unable to share in the massive enthusiasm for Werckmeister Harmonies); like many of you, I've just received the AE Satantango, and it's sitting on the shelf awaiting a viewing.

Tarr's name often crops up alongside that of Alexandr Sokurov, the latter of whom is seen as part of a post-Soviet 'spiritual'/mystical/individualistic cinema in the lineage of Tarkovsky (although it was hardly in evidence in his last one, The Sun). I have always been apprehensive about any conscious notion of spiritualism in film, or related existential attempts to evade sociopolitical reality. Where does Satantango sit in this constellation? Tarr seems like more of a materialist to me; the box says that the film is 'about the decline of Communism in Eastern Europe'. Is it?

To go back to antecedents, the reason Jancsó (on the basis of only two films seen) strikes me as ultimately a greater filmmaker than Tarkovsky is the much greater sense of history, not merely in terms of 'period', but of situation of human beings in the world, whereas much of Tarkovsky seems solipsistic. Does Tarr stand in relation to Sokurov as Jancsó does to Tarkovsky, or is this just a false analogy based on nationality?

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skuhn8
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#44 Post by skuhn8 » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:25 am

Highway 61 wrote:I don't have much of a choice, the Portland Art Museum has Damnation booked first. But it's a relief to hear that Tarr's films are aestheticly driven. For probably all the wrong reasons, I've been under the assumption that Santango would be a politically charged, seven hour Chris Markeresque film.

And to Titus, thanks very much for the link, quite informative.
Damnation was my first taste of Tarr and I found it a good intro. I haven't seen Satantango yet....hoping someone will be fed up with their's and trade--but as to Werckmeister that one didn't do much for me. Still prefer Damnation as far as the metaphysical films. I've seen two of his older films as well and tink Family Nest is a masterpiece. Only, when we talk of Tarr I think we're moving past the socialist realism works into the current phase. Curious to see where he goes from here.

I don't think you need to read up on Tarr to "get him". Much of it is endurance. If you can sit wide eyed through Andrei Rublev's "Director Cut" then you should be ok with Tarr. It's not like Godard where it helps to have a glossary of his tools and tricks and references. Tarr references nothing but the fleeting tastes, feel, smell and sight of the...of the...what...universe I guess.

spencerw
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:01 am

#45 Post by spencerw » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:50 am

skuhn8 wrote:Curious to see where he goes from here.
For some clues, see his production company's synopsis of his next film, The Man from London

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John Cope
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#46 Post by John Cope » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:01 pm

Gropius wrote: (was unable to share in the massive enthusiasm for Werckmeister Harmonies)
What about it did you not like (I suspect I know the answer)?
Gropius wrote: Tarr's name often crops up alongside that of Alexandr Sokurov, the latter of whom is seen as part of a post-Soviet 'spiritual'/mystical/individualistic cinema in the lineage of Tarkovsky (although it was hardly in evidence in his last one, The Sun). I have always been apprehensive about any conscious notion of spiritualism in film, or related existential attempts to evade sociopolitical reality. Where does Satantango sit in this constellation? Tarr seems like more of a materialist to me; the box says that the film is 'about the decline of Communism in Eastern Europe'. Is it?
Well, yeah, it is, amongst many other things. The only thing Tarr consciously evades is the modernist inclination to reduce everything down to one absolute solution. All his work defies that non-integrational approach, even the early social realist films. Anyway, from Almanac of Fall on he begins exploring more explicitly metaphysical terrain and I would certainly place Satantango in that category, though many don't and it isn't required to appreciate the film aesthetically, or even politically. My own feeling is that you do yourself a disservice by not considering that angle. It diminishes his achievement. For me, purely political films, far from being more relevant and pressing, are often tedious and offer little inspiration beyond the establishment of a perhaps contrarian polemical stance. Such a reading of Tarr's late films fails because it doesn't take his aesthetic approach into account nearly enough. It may be, as many have said, that he ultimately rejects transcendence (and he has been cagey on this subject in interviews) but if so he does, at the very least, engage in a serious dialogue with the idea. As the Catholic theologian Denys Turner has said, atheism is a valuable and important position for the theist as it seeks to constantly challenge and renew his own understanding of what he believes. The strictly materialist position that still deigns to engage in dialogue reveals a very real world view in which the answer to such questions is still of the utmost importance, essential even; according to this logic, only indifference to the question is truly valueless. Of course, even this misses the larger point.

There is a prevailing and false modern assumption in a distinction between realism or materialism and myth or metaphysics. Though they are separate disciplines, they are also facets of a larger whole. Pre-Enlightenment thinking posited no distinction within this holistic, integrated approach and the foundations of recorded philosophy within the pre-Socratic world was similarly disposed toward this position. Separating notions of truth is a fairly recent invention and I don't think you can say that because the spiritual originates as an interior process it is inherently solipsist and has no impact on the social (clearly many would argue it has too much impact at present). The problem seems to me to be when that impact is dictated by narrow or shallow understandings. But the metaphysical was always a foundational element in the establishment of early civilizations and their art and the origins of philosophy. Much of what came after was a reaction against this, whether rightly or wrongly. The modern disinclination toward these ideas can be understood though, as much such work does fall into a mire of murky New Age sentimentality and poorly though out reasoning. But Tarr works in the true tradition of metaphysical inquiry; he might consider himself predominantly a materialist (as does somebody like Zizek) but he never ignores or dismisses the consideration of a larger contextualizing dimension.

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Michael
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#47 Post by Michael » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:27 am

Read with caution because I think what I'm about to write will be sprinkled with spoilers.

Somebody needs to open up an umbrella factory in Hungary!

I just finished the whole film last night. Everything about it still lingers with me. Throughout the night, I slipped out of the sleep occasionally to discover the images and sounds from Satantango still circulating inside my mind and heart.

The story needs time to bloom after it ends. I'm beginning to get what Tarr wants to say in the film. What he has to say is really huge.. so biblical that I really need more time to process and put everything in order. The only thing I don't understand is the last two chapters. Who are the two guys typing up a list of characters while snacking on bread and pickles? The significance of this particular chapter went over my head.

The final chapters "Turks are coming!" bell ringing instantly snapped me out of the long trance. The guy seems to have escaped from a nearby institution if I'm not mistaken. But I also feel I'm missing the significance of all this seemingly essential scene.

Today I find myself wanting to see more of what's happening to those characters who moved out of the village. How do they make out in the new world especially after being duped!? Probably same shit all over again. Con artists use tragedies to take advantage of people. People are so blind by their delusions. Terribly tragic but so so true.

I really love the plum brandy doctor. Where's he going?! Joining the attic whores (one of them looking eerily like Jennifer Coolidge)?

Great great cinematic experience. A complete revelation. Everyone on this forum must see this film.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

#48 Post by zedz » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:50 pm

Michael wrote:I just finished the whole film last night. Everything about it still lingers with me. Throughout the night, I slipped out of the sleep occasionally to discover the images and sounds from Satantango still circulating inside my mind and heart.

[. . .]

Today I find myself wanting to see more of what's happening to those characters who moved out of the village. How do they make out in the new world especially after being duped!? Probably same shit all over again. Con artists use tragedies to take advantage of people. People are so blind by their delusions. Terribly tragic but so so true.
Congratulations on coming out the other side! Isn't it remarkable how you're left at the end of the film wanting even more? For a film that for so long seemed generally uninterested in plot, it manages to resolve itself into a pretty compelling narrative.

marty

#49 Post by marty » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:19 pm

My DVD copy of AE's Satantango arrived just now to my office. It's nicely packaged with three DVD thin slip cases. I would love to watch it as soon as I get home tonight but I feel that it would be better to see the film in its entirety in one sitting since I have never seen the film yet. Is it better to watch it in one sitting? If so, I will have to wait until Saturday to see it unless I want to watch it tonight and go to sleep at 2am!

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criterionsnob
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#50 Post by criterionsnob » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:51 am

I would recommend watching it in one sitting. I would also recommend you get a good wine buzz going. I only had one bottle, but could've used a second.

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