Anime

[Michael Kerpan]

I really really disliked Wind Rises (except for how good it looked).

Your Name (as I recall) involved high schoolers, didn't it?

[knives]

Can you guys recommend a bunch of anime movies whose main characters aren't children? I'm bit weary of watching animes about plucky high schoolers.

Just movies or also shows? Sticking with movies I’d recommend Inu-Oh from the Kaiba creator, most things Lupin the Third, Kawamoto’s Book of the Dead, and The Red Turtle

[Michael Kerpan]

Also from Yuasa (like Kaiba) -- Night Is Short, Walk on Girl (main characters are in college, but some older ones as well).

[therewillbeblus]

I really really disliked Wind Rises (except for how good it looked).

Your Name (as I recall) involved high schoolers, didn't it?

Yeah I was joking, we talked about this recently.

Looking it up now, you’re right, the central couple in Your Name. are apparently teenagers - but they feel like young adults, as they carry a maturity and engage in setting conditions very different from the “plucky” anime kids Sausage is referring to. I’ll stand by the rec

[colinr0380]

I seem to remember at the time of The Wind Rises that it resulted in a bit of controversy, since Miyazaki went public in disparaging the same year's thematically similar (and apparently much more obviously celebratory of its pilots) release of The Eternal Zero. I still need to see and compare both films to come to any specific conclusions on it myself, though I get the impression it is going to boil down to someone with 'loftier' ideals brushing up against someone else with more 'real world' agendas to their similar material.

[Mr Sausage]

Yes, just movies. The anime watchalong has me covered for shows.

I have seen Your Name and liked it, but it's exactly what I don't want at the moment. Something serious involving adults, please.

[Michael Kerpan]

My problem with Wind Rises wasn't "political". Rather I found the story an confusing and uncomfortable mess. Miyazki mashed together the story of the aircraft designer with an unrelated love story (inspired by another source). And I found he carried the "art for art's sake" baanner a bit too far for my taste.

I don't recall the leads in Your Name being especially mature for their age.

I think it is easier to find adult-centered anime series than to find movies. There is a far greater number of the former. I guess Miyazaki's Porco Rosso might count, however. And Castle of Cagliostro.

[Mr Sausage]

I don't recall the leads in Your Name being especially mature for their age.

You remember correctly. And the film wouldn't even work if they were mature.

I think it is easier to find adult-centered anime series than to find movies. There is a far greater number of the former.

Yeah, why is that? Not hard to find what I want in anime series, but I don't want to watch a whole series right now, and my anime kevyip is all stories about juveniles.

I should say, I've seen all of Miyazaki, as well as stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Jin-Roh: the Wolf Brigade, and Satoshi Kon's work. It's just I'm tired of watching stuff like Your Name, Patema Inverted, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Summer Wars, etc. So many kids! The Takahata suggestion is good; I've been meaning to get more into him after loving Grave of the Fireflies and Tale of the Princess Kaguya. But where are the other movies about adults facing adult problems?

[knives]

They’re few and far between with series tending to be more daring for whatever reason. In movies, for example, I think you’d like Barefoot Gen, but that’s another one with child protagonists and the theatrical is just more of a child’s realm.

[Mr Sausage]

Anime is all kids and vampire hunters, apparently.

[Michael Kerpan]

Oh -- I forgot a lovely (saddish) one -- In this Corner of the World. Set in post-war Hiroshima.

Takahata's tragi-comic Pom Poko is mostly about (shape-changing) tanuki getting displaced by development.

[therewillbeblus]

It's a lot of youth presented with intrusive elements of life that sober them and force them to engage in adult-issues and maturation. What works about this on a universal level is that, in going back to those familiar developmental stages of exponential growth, and all the vulnerability (in both perceived insecurities and lack of actual skills) therein, we can relate to our own ongoing experience being presented with elements that we feel unprepared for, confused or emotionally affected by, and find a kind of spiritual humility and empowerment in. This can be done with adults too, obviously, but I often feel like anime, more than youth-centered works in other mediums, engages in advanced existential and psychologies realities. Now, when this is coupled with annoying, immature presentations of youth, that can be a little "much" - which is why I suggested Your Name. since I think the characters are not as 'loud' as the histrionic typical anime teens found in like 95% of animes I've seen. My bad.

I think Michael's suggestion Only Yesterday is probably what you're looking for, though a good chunk of it is flashbacks to youth..

[Michael Kerpan]

Well -- the flashbacks in Only Yesterday are to realistically depicted grade school kids rather than typical anime teens....

[therewillbeblus]

Ha, yes, but that's how I feel about the teens in Your Name. and that wasn't welcome, so the disclaimer feels appropriate. It seems Mr Sausage is looking for literally no kids, rather than measured characters vs. manic exaggerated cartoonish teens, which is how I interpreted the request initially

[jojo]

Can you guys recommend a bunch of anime movies whose main characters aren't children? I'm bit weary of watching animes about plucky high schoolers.

For that I think you'd be looking more at pre-2000 anime films.

I think there was more variety of genres (and character ages) in the 80s. A lot of current "original" anime movies, while quite pretty and well made, tend to be strictly in the YA genre, which seems to be the most profitable.

During the 80s you had stuff like Golgo 13: The Professional, Space Adventure Cobra, Dagger of Kamui, Wicked City. These may not be to your tastes but look at the variety: Violent Assassin action thriller, sci-fi cheese, ninja epic, and a John Carpenter-esque horror. All of these feature adult leads except for maybe Dagger of Kamui, but he's closer to a young man than a kid for the majority of the film.

As far as newer films, you might give Pompo The Cinephile a try, and Ride Your Wave, Looking for Magical Doremi. All of them feature "adults", at least in that they are over 18 years old. (I put the word adults in quotes because in some cases they still might as well be high school kids in the way they behave)

There was a duology of science fiction-romance films released last year you might want to check out-- To Every You I've Loved Before and To Me, the One Who Loved You. On the face of it they initially feature high school kids but the film follows them to middle age and eventually, seniors. I recommend them hesitantly because I don't think they're entirely successful films, but they're worth watching at least once.

[barbarella satyricon]

I haven't gone through everyone's posts to see what has and hasn't been mentioned, but if you haven't seen Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honneamise, the first film from Gainax, released in 1987, that might fit the bill of what you're looking for. It's basically a space travel drama set in a vaguely sci-fi alternate-world setting, and with the bulk of its runtime devoted to the aeronautics, training, and unrushed character development rather than actual space flight. The artwork and character design are detailed and accomplished, though with a certain rough, unprettified quality that I've always appreciated. In non-animation film terms, the "cinematography" of the thing feels a little more vérité than your average anime, if that can properly be said of what is still, essentially, a colorful animated cartoon. It's also got a memorable score by Ryuichi Sakamoto.

Besides that one, I also love the look of something like Roujin Z from 1991, though I haven't yet given it a proper uninterrupted watch from start to finish.

[colinr0380]

Besides that one, I also love the look of something like Roujin Z from 1991, though I haven't yet given it a proper uninterrupted watch from start to finish.

Which did get an endorsement from Roger Ebert back in the day!

[feihong]

I think the dearth of anime movies with adult protagonists is mostly an economic thing. The movies have to appeal more broadly than the shows, and so I think the filmmakers are much more loathe to take risks. The Patlabor movies and Ghost in the Shell are about adults, and the horror ones people mentioned are (your Vampire Hunter Ds and Demon City Shinjukus and Wicked Cities and Ninja Scrolls). Plastic Little, as well (though that and Ninja Scroll and Vampire Hunter D were OVA films, if I remember right, aimed at the video market. For all I know, it was the same for Demon City and Wicked City as well. In a vein somewhere directly between Wicked City and Plastic Little is a fun OVA movie known as Call Me Tonight, which boasts sleazy erotic horror and a bracing City Pop soundtrack. The Megazone 23 movies look gorgeous, though they're not too sophisticated. Roujin-Z was, I thought, pretty minimal––though that's par for the course with these 80s anime movies. There were only a few big productions, only a few that were feature-length, but also oriented towards adults. Series, though, were a different matter.

Of recent movies, Fortune Favors Lady Nikuko is a good one which doesn't lean upon a plucky teen protagonist. One of the protagonists begins as a baby and grows into a child, and either into young adulthood or at least into her late teens––but the focus of the story is on the parent/child relationship, not on high school hijinks. Macquia: When the Promised Flower Blooms is another one technically not focused on teenaged characters (though the main character is essentially an adult in a child's body, so it's a bit of a cheat). But really its the series where they seem ready to risk adult protagonists, and series like Bubblegum Crisis, The Big O, The Tatami Galaxy, Baccano!, Doomed Megalopolis, Durararara!!!, Rose of Versailles...etc., etc., etc.

I guess in retrospect, Call Me Tonight is only 30 minutes, though it's treated mostly as a film. Other film projects of the 80s that don't feature teen kids or teen characters: Lily C.A.T., They Were Eleven, the Dirty Pair movies, and Black Magic M-66––which actually played pretty well, even though I had doubts about it initially. The manga is interesting, too, but substantially different in almost every way. I like both quite a bit. If I recall right, the hero of Dagger of Kamui is an adult, too––making on of only a few films on this list which aren't science fiction.

[barbarella satyricon]

Sat down to watch Roujin Z while it was still on my mind, and I found it to be more like a very well-made TV movie than a substantial feature film. After a clearly established and intriguing premise in the opening scenes, the characters and action are all fairly one-note, right up to the end. The topic is more timely than ever, though, and the computer and tech stuff is also strikingly current. The hardware depicted all looks solidly late-80s/early-90s (a dancing soda can also makes a brief appearance), so the AI voice emulation and generative personality elements seem fanciful in context, but also accurate vis-à-vis the current tech. It seemed like the film would be taking the ethical issues it opens up, related to technological advances in geriatrics and elderly care, into more interesting and nuanced places, so the primarily robot-action-oriented second half was a bit of a letdown. So, not a big thumbs up from me, but a qualified recommendation.

[jojo]

If I recall right, the hero of Dagger of Kamui is an adult, too––making on of only a few films on this list which aren't science fiction.

It's been a while since I last saw it, but the hero in Dagger of Kamui starts the film off as a kid... I don't remember if they specified exactly how old he was after the time skip 15 minutes or so into the film. He could be anywhere between 15 and 22.

Of course, we should not fail to mention Satoshi Kon's films, all of which feature mostly adult characters. But I gather Sausage has already seen most of them.

[colinr0380]

One series I quite enjoyed was Salaryman Kintaro, in which the premise is that a much feared (by the public) and adored (by his gang, and gangs in general) biker gang leader suddenly decides to completely abandon his position as the head of the gang to join a white collar company in the lowliest ‘salaryman’ position. We find out a bit of his reasons for this over the first couple of episodes, which is that he is now a widower looking after a young daughter and has made the choice to find some ‘respectable’ employment in order to be a stable father figure and be able to provide for his daughter’s future.

This of course leads to a lot of culture clash situations as Kintaro goes from the most menial position in the company where he just has to sharpen pencils for the rest of the employees in the office (whilst watched Diet Coke break style by the adoring female staff as he obliviously devotes himself to doing the task to the best of his ability. Kintaro being the perfect storm for attracting female attention since he’s handsome, a reformed ‘bad boy’ and conveniently a widower with a tragic back story, as well as a loving father to an adorable child that everyone wants to mother. This obviously annoys the other male employees getting overlooked in the stampede by the ladies to help Kintaro out, without Kintaro even trying to attract them!) to eventually catching the eye of the CEO himself (which is a kind of Big or Hudsucker Proxy-style relationship where the older, out of touch head of the company gets reinvigorated by his relationship with a younger man who has a different perspective and kind of flatteringly reminds the CEO of himself as a younger man too. Which obviously annoys the other executives who have all been infighting amongst each other for who will become the next protégé when they see Kintaro sail past them without even trying!)

Each of the episodes usually has a flashback to Kintaro’s biker gang past, and a bit of his tragic love story which moves that plotline on a little. And then there is usually a moment when the two worlds clash in the present where for example on a night out drinking with his fellow salaryman buddies they get accosted by some yakuza thugs, but Kintaro is either recognised for his fearsome reputation or has to beat a few of them up. Which shows that the ‘bad boy’ is still there beneath the surface, just being reigned in until it has to be forced out by others. (There are also the occasions where he meets up with his ex-gang members, who still idolise him and show how much influence he had in keeping that seemingly lawless community together)

About halfway through, once the CEO has really begun to take Kintaro under his wing and starts giving him more responsibilities in the company, we get more obvious equations between Kintaro’s past and his present situations, as Kintaro begins to marshal the workers in blue collar situations (it has been a while since I last watched the series but I think there is an episode about Kintaro going out on location to help manage a mining operation that does the ‘manager getting down with the workers to all achieve a goal together’ thing); there is a new love interest starting to look after the daughter more at home, and beginning to care for Kintaro himself too; and perhaps most interestingly, the white collar corporate backstabbing and jostling for position in the boardroom (or on the golf course) begins to parallel the biker gang stuff, with Kintaro being surprised at how applicable his previous transgressive lifestyle is to his new, supposedly respectable life (kind of the primary theme of A Clockwork Orange, only if the parallels between thug and respectable were being shown without a hint of bitter irony!)

It is not a spectacular series but is an undemandingly enjoyable way to pass the time, and at least it definitely does not deal with high schoolers, but instead the world of work! I also am not sure how available this series is – it was released in three volumes on DVD by Artsmagic in the US in the mid-2000s (notable for being the only anime series they released), which is how I managed to pick it up, but I think those DVDs are long out of print now. (EDIT: They're all in this playlist for the moment)
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In terms of other things, I really liked Gangsta. for its strange world and for featuring maybe the coolest deaf character in animation! That also as things develop becomes a lot about class differences and how they filter down into the next generation with the relationship between the insouciant fallen-into-crime cocky ex-noble child of a major family and his servant-born friend since childhood (but who may himself be the one who through his backstory may eventually prove to be more important to uniting the families), as seen through the eyes of the on the run from her pimp woman who falls in with them and feels torn between her affections for each of them. That is a one season series that has long been cancelled however, so you have to be OK with the story in the anime ending inconclusively, if evocatively just at the point when a long fermented revolution in the city is coming to the boil.

And also relating to crime, I have the Prohibition-era set series 91 Days in my ‘to watch’ pile (along with Baccano!) but as I am still wading my way through the final dozen or so episodes of the Fist of the North Star series, I still have yet to get to it.

Plus Planetes and Vinland Saga!

[Michael Kerpan]

Naoko Yamada made a (to me, very Takahata-esque) short as part of the anthology Modern Love Tokyo (on Amazon Prime). This has the bonus of being written by director Naoko Ogigani. I rate this often wordless little movie as a masterpiece. Note: while centered on a 20-something female protagonist, it (like Only Yesterday) does look back to her past.

[barbarella satyricon]

Naoko Yamada made a (to me, very Takahata-esque) short as part of the anthology Modern Love Tokyo (on Amazon Prime). This has the bonus of being written by director Naoko Ogigani. I rate this often wordless little movie as a masterpiece. Note: while centered on a 20-something female protagonist, it (like Only Yesterday) does look back to her past.

I'll be seeking this out, Michael, and I also second your earlier recommendation of Omohide Poro Poro. I haven't seen every anime film in existence, obviously, but I was convinced long ago that there's nothing else to match that one, not in the number of sheerly perfect moments making up such a richly layered and beautifully structured whole. Absolute top tier, yes.

[Michael Kerpan]

As far as I'm concerned, Takahata was the top director of anime movies. I feel he is on a whole other tier from Miyazaki (even at his best). That said, Naoko Yamada is about as good as it gets nowadays (especially since Yuasa is now inactive, at least temporarily). I love Hosoda -- but I think Yamada has a much wider range.

[knives]

What happened to Yuasa?