The Conservative Closet

A subforum to discuss film culture and criticism both old and new, as well as memorializing public figures we've lost.
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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Conservative Closet

#101 Post by knives » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:41 pm

Humourously my experience was quite different with a lot of explicitly political language by professors especially when I went to grad school.

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furbicide
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#102 Post by furbicide » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:14 am

I think we really need to break out of the dead-end "waaah conservatives are being oppressed" vs "no they're not, shut up" debate. Society is not a holistic entity, but consists of a range of different milieus/sectors in which certain ways of thinking are prevalent.

Just as a random example, I feel this quite acutely in my social-media usage: on Facebook, 95% of the people in my network are left-leaning and middle-class, whereas on the football forum I post on (yes!), there's a very broad range of political views and class backgrounds with, I'd say, a centre/centre-right midpoint. I would probably not know a single working-class person if I didn't post there, but I would also never be challenged on many of my deeply held views. Workplaces, industries and institutions can work in a similar way, and to treat the paradigms that emerge from such places as ambient, i.e. just sitting there not affecting anything around them, totally ignores the way social groups operate.

In the industry I work in, like many creative industries, networking is paramount and will heavily dictate what jobs you have access to. If just one person of influence thinks that your politics are bad and that makes you bad – and let's face it, that's how many of us tend to think nowadays – then that's going to have a negative impact; people will gossip and pass judgements; the people with bad politics will be isolated; better-connected people will get the position. As a perhaps extreme example, an influential left-wing government-funded literary journal here at one point publicly refused to publish any poets who had had their work published in the only right-wing government-funded literary journal (even if they had no particular right-wing leanings themselves; poets are often pretty happy to get published by anyone who'll have them). So in that sense, yeah, I think having right-wing politics is a disadvantage in some industries. And yet, many of us live in countries where not only governments but (supposedly more progressive) opposition parties are well to the right of the political consensus in these cultural circles.

So, again, it's not that right-wing people are oppressed; it's just that society is disjointed and segregated, and people are increasingly retreating to and reinforcing their own bubbles. And that means that nothing that actually matters is changing for the better.

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#103 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:13 pm

I think the divisions are shown by the discussion we've had. I think we among ourselves would not even be able to agree upon the premise of the discussion let along have a meaningful discussion. And I would think almost all of us here are liberals. It's emblematic of culture these days.

Even a premise stating something like all media and universities are in general liberal which would be the premise of a discussion wouldn't be broadly accepted. It's akin to disagreeing on the facts of a case in the legal sense. We will never reach the merits.

We all have our own truths today. Our own realities. Our own conception of the world. When people try to exchange ideas, you don't even know where they are coming from, what premise they are operating from.

Our speech is confused forever. There can never be an exchange of ideas anymore. We are all doomed.

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Brian C
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: The Conservative Closet

#104 Post by Brian C » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:29 pm

Well, I mean ... some people try to explain their ideas and engage in conversation, and some just throw their hands up and say “we’re all doomed” as soon as someone disagrees with them.

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DarkImbecile
Ask me about my visible cat breasts
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: The Conservative Closet

#105 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:29 pm

Happy Friday, everyone!

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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: The Conservative Closet

#106 Post by swo17 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:32 pm

I agree we are all doomed but it has more to do with Arrow booklets

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Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#107 Post by Drucker » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:35 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:13 pm
Our speech is confused forever. There can never be an exchange of ideas anymore. We are all doomed.
I'm trying to follow this thread and don't get into the political stuff too much around here these days, but the notion that in recent memory, people have advocated for ideas based on debate and scrutiny of their positions, and now that time is passed.

My brief two cents it that divisions that have always existed have been completely amplified by social media. And politics has become a reality show that is no longer isolated from everything else cultural.

When were we using robust debate to make smart decisions for the greater good? The run-up to the Iraq War? When we gutted Welfare? When we didn't include black people in portions of the New Deal?

Facts have never mattered. Political coalitions and seizing power when the moment is available is the engine that has driven American history. And it continues to!

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Black Hat
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:34 pm
Location: NYC

Re: The Conservative Closet

#108 Post by Black Hat » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:01 pm

furbicide wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:14 am
So, again, it's not that right-wing people are oppressed; it's just that society is disjointed and segregated, and people are increasingly retreating to and reinforcing their own bubbles. And that means that nothing that actually matters is changing for the better.
This.

I've found much of the liberal media or liberal this or that chatter to be way over blown. When it comes to Hollywood, as I've read more about its history, I'm astonished at how many people weren't just conservative, but avid right wingers. I think you could make a strong case that the Hollywood right has historically been far more influential than the Hollywood left.

What really all this is about is our institutions being broken which leads to fear amongst the general population who are then easily influenced in various directions.

Having been around Republicans/Trumpers quite a bit the last few years in the midwest and south, they're for the most part super nice people, probably nicer than many of my friends in New York. They're also incredibly eager to talk. When you go by everything we're being told you wouldn't think someone with their background would be so happy to speak with my background, but they do.

Tim Allen's a moron trying to profit off of his non existent victimhood, but there is a prevailing sense within these communities that they've been dismissed by the cool kids who have gone off to hang out with the weirdos.

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#109 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:24 pm

Where are these supposed trumpies. I live in NJ and work in NYC. Simply for the sake of variety, I would like to speak to a trumpy. But alas, literally never come across one.

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#110 Post by movielocke » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:30 pm

I’m still curious about where I can find liberal media networks, with cnn and npr being destructively centrist, and abc, nbc and cbs being firmly right of center and msnbc being just a teensy bit left of center I’m puzzled at where the liberal networks are.

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Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#111 Post by Drucker » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:43 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:24 pm
Where are these supposed trumpies. I live in NJ and work in NYC. Simply for the sake of variety, I would like to speak to a trumpy. But alas, literally never come across one.
The suburbs. My guess by this comment is you live in Maplewood.

Glowingwabbit
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 1:27 pm

Re: The Conservative Closet

#112 Post by Glowingwabbit » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:47 pm

movielocke wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:30 pm
I’m still curious about where I can find liberal media networks, with cnn and npr being destructively centrist, and abc, nbc and cbs being firmly right of center and msnbc being just a teensy bit left of center I’m puzzled at where the liberal networks are.
I think with the far right moving further and further right anything else looks like it's leftist

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Black Hat
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:34 pm
Location: NYC

Re: The Conservative Closet

#113 Post by Black Hat » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:50 pm

There's plenty of conservatives and Trump voters around the tri state area. Even in the supposed liberal heaven of my neighborhood, the uws, I know a number of Trump supporters. Long Island, Staten Island and certain pockets of BK/Queens (old Irish Italian neighborhoods where a lot of cops/firemen live) have them in droves.

Movielocke you should know by now that narrative is truth.

GW - That's been going on for decades. Obama was a traditional centrist, arguably center right, hell he described himself as Ronald Reagan, but to hear the press tell it he broke bread with Chomsky.

Even this recent NYT kerfuffle is yet another example.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Conservative Closet

#114 Post by knives » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:53 pm

It was quite interesting recently to go up to Gardner and see a Confederate shrine.

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Brian C
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: The Conservative Closet

#115 Post by Brian C » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:41 pm

Black Hat wrote:GW - That's been going on for decades. Obama was a traditional centrist, arguably center right, hell he described himself as Ronald Reagan, but to hear the press tell it he broke bread with Chomsky.
Chomsky’s too mild ... back in the day, it was terrorist David Ayers and militant black guy Jeremiah Wright.

I don’t hear much from the press these days about how radical left Obama was, to be honest. Probably because the plutocracy - of which the mainstream press is very much a part of - are too busy literally planning a coups if Warren or Sanders are elected.


Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#116 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:09 pm

Drucker wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:43 pm
Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:24 pm
Where are these supposed trumpies. I live in NJ and work in NYC. Simply for the sake of variety, I would like to speak to a trumpy. But alas, literally never come across one.
The suburbs. My guess by this comment is you live in Maplewood.
I live in newport.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Conservative Closet

#117 Post by knives » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:38 pm

Brian C wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:41 pm
Black Hat wrote:GW - That's been going on for decades. Obama was a traditional centrist, arguably center right, hell he described himself as Ronald Reagan, but to hear the press tell it he broke bread with Chomsky.
Chomsky’s too mild ... back in the day, it was terrorist David Ayers and militant black guy Jeremiah Wright.

I don’t hear much from the press these days about how radical left Obama was, to be honest. Probably because the plutocracy - of which the mainstream press is very much a part of - are too busy literally planning a coups if Warren or Sanders are elected.
That'd be unfortunate. Warren is in my top three right now.

Jack Kubrick
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:13 pm

Re: The Conservative Closet

#118 Post by Jack Kubrick » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:57 pm

knives wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:53 pm
It was quite interesting recently to go up to Gardner and see a Confederate shrine.
As someone whose upbringing was in Central Massachusetts I've encounter racist sentiment from white locals that were common among my family.

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Black Hat
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:34 pm
Location: NYC

Re: The Conservative Closet

#119 Post by Black Hat » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:19 pm

Warren's the only one who is actually offering any ideas with an expertise in policy to match, unfortunately she's not a likable personality and I think Trump will have a field day against her that will frankly be hilarious to watch. I can't see Bernie happening, as tho I think he has the best chance of defeating Trump, too many democrats are unhinged at the prospect of him being the nominee. I've liked Gillibrand as a good value bet to win the nominee and if her campaign is smart they'll encourage her to be aggressive in the upcoming debate. She has the potential to be a mix of the different factions of the party in a pleasant, young package, but her campaign has been nondescript to date. I'm curious to see how Gabbard and Yang do as they've both garnered considerable support from different factions of the internet.

As for Biden as unsurprising as it is, watching him screw up what should be a layup of a primary has been hysterical. The man's incompetence is staggering to behold.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Conservative Closet

#120 Post by knives » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:28 pm

This is getting way off topic, but I'd vote for Trump over Yang who I see as equally dangerous.

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#121 Post by movielocke » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:31 pm

Brian C wrote:. Probably because the plutocracy - of which the mainstream press is very much a part of - are too busy literally planning a coups if Warren or Sanders are elected.
It’s funny the ruling casts perceives any real threat from warren or sanders, even if they win neither one will have a senate majority and both will experience the joy of a four year totally neutered lame duck presidency.

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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: The Conservative Closet

#122 Post by swo17 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:35 pm

Back in the closet, out of the streets

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