Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#201 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:44 pm

bearcuborg wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:48 am
If memory serves the first half is just clumsy, bad and boring. The second half is all of those things too, but then also confusing and undoing Star Wars history.

Also, this might be the only saga film with no wipes.
I generally roll my eyes when people comment on how the filmmakers should have edited their film to make it better, but to break my own rule, the first half is so rushed with no breathing room that slowing it down just a fraction and adding maybe five total minute to the running time would have made it more bearable. I think the second half is stronger only because they actually did this (slightly) even if the material isn’t strong enough to have much of an effect regardless.

I noticed a wipe or two but they were so quick (to match the frenetic pacing) that you probably blinked during them! I actually chuckled at how even these were rushed.

User avatar
movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#202 Post by movielocke » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:30 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
bearcuborg wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:48 am
If memory serves the first half is just clumsy, bad and boring. The second half is all of those things too, but then also confusing and undoing Star Wars history.

Also, this might be the only saga film with no wipes.
I generally roll my eyes when people comment on how the filmmakers should have edited their film to make it better, but to break my own rule, the first half is so rushed with no breathing room that slowing it down just a fraction and adding maybe five total minute to the running time would have made it more bearable. I think the second half is stronger only because they actually did this (slightly) even if the material isn’t strong enough to have much of an effect regardless.

I noticed a wipe or two but they were so quick (to match the frenetic pacing) that you probably blinked during them! I actually chuckled at how even these were rushed.
Indeed, but the hyper frenetic editing was quite honestly the most shocking thing about the entire film to me.

The editing style was like a michael bay film on meth. Or as a friend memorably described it, like watching an entire season of tv on fast forward.

Which is sad because the wonderful editing style and pace of the force awakens that had a strong fidelity to the original three films, by the same editors as rise of Skywalker, was one of the strongest elements of episode seven.

I would guess their first cut came in over three and a half hours.

User avatar
R0lf
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 am

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#203 Post by R0lf » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:46 pm

Luke M wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:31 pm
I especially liked all the new stuff they made up:
SpoilerShow
Jedis can heal wounds.
This doesn’t really play like a new plot point considering it was kind of a big part in the prequel trilogy when
SpoilerShow
Anakin became Darth Vader because he couldn’t heal people.

User avatar
Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#204 Post by Luke M » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:23 pm

R0lf wrote:
Luke M wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:31 pm
I especially liked all the new stuff they made up:
SpoilerShow
Jedis can heal wounds.
This doesn’t really play like a new plot point considering it was kind of a big part in the prequel trilogy when
SpoilerShow
Anakin became Darth Vader because he couldn’t heal people.
I always sorta took that it was something that wasn't possible because it was never shown on screen by anyone. I watched the prequels this weekend and felt that scene could've been interpreted as Palpatine making that story up. But that might not have been the intention.

User avatar
bearcuborg
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:30 am
Location: Philadelphia via Chicago

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#205 Post by bearcuborg » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:40 pm

The Mandolarian would say otherwise...

User avatar
R0lf
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 am

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#206 Post by R0lf » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:58 pm

Luke M wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:23 pm
R0lf wrote:
Luke M wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:31 pm
I especially liked all the new stuff they made up:
SpoilerShow
Jedis can heal wounds.
This doesn’t really play like a new plot point considering it was kind of a big part in the prequel trilogy when
SpoilerShow
Anakin became Darth Vader because he couldn’t heal people.
I always sorta took that it was something that wasn't possible because it was never shown on screen by anyone. I watched the prequels this weekend and felt that scene could've been interpreted as Palpatine making that story up. But that might not have been the intention.

Yes but with the amount of wrap around convenient plotting and lip service to the other movies (and Palpatine quoting that line at the start of ROS) I’m hard pressed to think it was an accident that Rey had that specific power.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#207 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:55 pm

Saw it. Don't see how anyone can get worked up much about this -- for or against. Hoping I never feel any need to see another Star Wars film...

User avatar
Noiretirc
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: VanIsle
Contact:

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#208 Post by Noiretirc » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:25 pm

I have an 11 year old, therefore it is my duty to go and see the latest Star Wars film. I went in expecting to hate it (because, well, this thread), but I didn't.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#209 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 pm

Didn't hate it -- just left me feeling pretty much like "meh". ;-)

User avatar
Persona
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#210 Post by Persona » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:42 pm

The plot was such a hot mess in this thing. Had more special object objectives than a videogame. JJ has some borrowed flair as a director, he is the closest thing we have to a human Spielberg emulator, but he is an awful writer. The relentless story convolutions and slap-dash editing made the first hour or so pretty insufferable. It finally gets into a rhythm but its aspirations and ideas are so shameless and hollow... It just wants to be the biggest, baddest finale ever and ultimately it just feels like a collection of extravagance.

User avatar
denti alligator
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: "born in heaven, raised in hell"

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#211 Post by denti alligator » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:12 pm

Noiretirc wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:25 pm
I have an 11 year old, therefore it is my duty to go and see the latest Star Wars film. I went in expecting to hate it (because, well, this thread), but I didn't.
I could have written that.

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#212 Post by swo17 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:20 pm

The quoted post or the film?

User avatar
denti alligator
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: "born in heaven, raised in hell"

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#213 Post by denti alligator » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:43 pm

swo17 wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:20 pm
The quoted post or the film?
The post. But I guess the film, too.

User avatar
Noiretirc
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: VanIsle
Contact:

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#214 Post by Noiretirc » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:11 am

I'm glad to see that others a) didn't hate this, and b) have 11 year olds.

I'm no Star Wars fan. I cannot think of a single film in the franchise that offers real suspense and less than cringeworthy dialogue for the most part. The prequels are a complete crime against humanity. But this one had some laughs, some great special effects (the Death Star in the waves was a wonderful set piece) and a hint of a story.

User avatar
Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#215 Post by Luke M » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:12 pm

Persona wrote:The plot was such a hot mess in this thing. Had more special object objectives than a videogame. JJ has some borrowed flair as a director, he is the closest thing we have to a human Spielberg emulator, but he is an awful writer. The relentless story convolutions and slap-dash editing made the first hour or so pretty insufferable. It finally gets into a rhythm but its aspirations and ideas are so shameless and hollow... It just wants to be the biggest, baddest finale ever and ultimately it just feels like a collection of extravagance.
I think the Duffer Brothers with Stranger Things are closer to Spielberg than anyone.

User avatar
The Curious Sofa
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#216 Post by The Curious Sofa » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:48 pm

...which very much feels like a TV spin-off of Abrams‘ Super 8

User avatar
jazzo
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:02 am

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#217 Post by jazzo » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:32 pm

Luke M wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:12 pm
Persona wrote:The plot was such a hot mess in this thing. Had more special object objectives than a videogame. JJ has some borrowed flair as a director, he is the closest thing we have to a human Spielberg emulator, but he is an awful writer. The relentless story convolutions and slap-dash editing made the first hour or so pretty insufferable. It finally gets into a rhythm but its aspirations and ideas are so shameless and hollow... It just wants to be the biggest, baddest finale ever and ultimately it just feels like a collection of extravagance.
I think the Duffer Brothers with Stranger Things are closer to Spielberg than anyone.
Geez, I don't know about that. No matter how you feel about his individual films, or specific directorial choices, I don't think anyone can dispute the claim that Spielberg is inherently a filmmaker, through and through, always knowing exactly where to place his camera to find the emotional core in any given scene.

And, although I’ve been pretty okay with the first two seasons of Stranger Things as a whole, I have never been impressed with the direction in the show. I, personally, thought the third season was awful, but my opinion of its horrid writing, pacing, characterization aside, the directing in the individual episodes absolutely convinced me that the Duffers have absolutely no fucking clue what to do with the camera, and are, essentially, hacks that got lucky.

User avatar
Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#218 Post by Luke M » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:34 pm

Completely agree. And yet I still think Abrams is worse.

User avatar
barryconvex
billy..biff..scooter....tommy
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:08 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#219 Post by barryconvex » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:39 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:55 pm
Saw it. Don't see how anyone can get worked up much about this -- for or against. Hoping I never feel any need to see another Star Wars film...
Ditto. Saw it earlier this afternoon and it met my expectations of being ok.

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#220 Post by swo17 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:30 am

"Glad we spent $300 million making this thing so that you could have an okay evening out"

ford
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#221 Post by ford » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:34 am

It's been over a week since I saw it and still just totally shocked at how dysfunctional it is. For whatever script and production problems Lucasfilm had with Solo and Rogue One, the eleventh hour reshoots and rewrites worked to varying degrees: Rogue One still has a totally undefined lead but the last act comes together with a surprisingly effective pay off, far more than can be said for Rise. Solo works quite well all the way through and is, I think, an unfairly maligned film. Nothing about the latter even hints at a "troubled" production.

Rise however is just pure shitstorm. Nothing works. No story beat feels earned. It just slams down with a bang then its off to the next shot. I can barely remember individual scenes, probably because nothing percolates whatsoever.

Clearly, a lot of The Force Awakens's success must be rooted in Kasdan's clean and simple script and clear story beats. Because I cannot believe these two films were made by the same director. I cannot believe they finished this script and thought "execute this baby on screen and we got ourselves a solid flick." I wouldn't be surprised if the total incoherence was not the result of "studio meddling" but, instead, Abrams's having secured a large degree of independence (and trust).

And to think: I was relieved when Colin Trevorrow got called off this movie. How wrong I was. Had Trevorrow simply executed something along the lines of Jurassic World but for Star Wars, I imagine everyone would be pretty satisfied.

User avatar
solaris72
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:03 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#222 Post by solaris72 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:10 pm

Have heard some rumblings that this may have had a similar sort of production to Solo and Rogue One (both of which I think are far better movies, but they also had a lot less to carry).

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#223 Post by domino harvey » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:32 pm

Yep, several accounts say Abrams suffered massive reshoots and production interference from the usual suspects (Kennedy et al) to make it more “fan pleasing” but because he’s a good soldier, he hasn’t said anything. Matt Smith, for instance, ended up completely cut due to the reshoots

ford
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#224 Post by ford » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:51 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:32 pm
Yep, several accounts say Abrams suffered massive reshoots and production interference from the usual suspects (Kennedy et al) to make it more “fan pleasing” but because he’s a good soldier, he hasn’t said anything. Matt Smith, for instance, ended up completely cut due to the reshoots
Who knows if this is true, but Reddit leaks have turned out to be entirely accurate for this film already so:
After Colin had left the project, Rian Johnson was immediately Lucasfilm’s top choice to take over however Iger and Horn weren’t impressed with The Last Jedi and thought it was a step down from The Force Awakens, this prompted Iger to personally offer Abrams the gig. JJ was not a fan of The Last Jedi, actually that’s putting it gently he absolutely loathed TLJ and has some serious beef with Rian Johnson, he only came back if he could have complete creative control and wouldn’t have to compromise with Kennedy or the Lucasfilm story group. JJ’s first move was to consult with George Lucas on the story for Episode IX, they came up with a story that had strong connections to The Clone Wars tv show which featured the Dagger of Mortis and Matt Smith as the Son of Mortis which would’ve been the film’s antagonist. The story also used many elements from George Lucas’ unused Sequel Trilogy treatments. Disney really wanted this movie to be another Force Awakens in the sense that it will unite all fans and be at least initially universally loved, after Solo’s flop at the box office, TLJ backlash and the decline in Star Wars merch it was paramount for Disney that Episode IX be a success with fans, they did not want another Last Jedi on their hands. The film’s direction changed radically during around mid-way of principle photography, JJ told the Disney executives that this film wouldn’t satisfy and unite all fans, this is where the studio medalling began which led to the second abandonment of George Lucas’ ideas. Nearly every story detail from the initial script was either completely abandoned or bastardised. Palpatine was always to have a presence in this movie but not alive or as the main villain, the main villain was to be the Son of Mortis. Disney feared that the general audiences would be alienated, as they wouldn’t know who Son of Mortis was which would make the movie harder to market and this led to the choice of replacing the Son with Palpatine and Matt Smith was completely removed from the movie. Disney ordered extensive reshoots that went on throughout the year leading up until early October, JJ Abrams was not happy with many of the changes that Disney made to The Rise of Skywalker, I don’t know the specifics but let’s just say he isn’t at all pleased with the final product. Essentially the majority of the movie was reshot and reconfigured this year at the same time leaving a ton of important scenes on the cutting room floor. I don't have any more new details on the making of The Rise of Skywalker other than that but I'm hoping that this post gets people with better sources to give out more details.

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#225 Post by swo17 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Did you all see Abrams' very political answer to people disappointed in the film, something like "they're right, and the people who love it are also right--there's no way to make a Star Wars movie that's going to please everybody"?

Post Reply