Suicide Squad / Birds of Prey Films (Ayer/Yan/Gunn, 2016-2021)

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tenia
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#176 Post by tenia » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:56 am

Kinnaman's woodenness was an awful chore to watch. Fortunately, he doesnt have a lot of lines but each one of them is one too many.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#177 Post by Rayon Vert » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:00 am

dx23 wrote: Instead, it is another mediocre installment for the whole DC films and the fifth one so far (Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, Man of Steel and Batman v Superman being the previous 4). It goes again by saying that the people at WB see these properties with contempt. They only care about them making money and while Disney is letting Marvel do their own thing without too much intervention, WB is doing everything they can to fuck DC up. From idiotic focus groups and bad reviews leading to future movie re-shoots and Zack Snyder, the man who hates comic books, leading the charge, WB has shot themselves on the foot once again. It feels like they didn't learn anything from Superman IV and Batman & Robin.
Has there been any hint dropped at all that the studio is aware of the widespread disappointment with the DC Extended Universe so far and that they plan on bringing certain changes into their projects in development?

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#178 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:01 am

Rayon Vert wrote:
dx23 wrote: Instead, it is another mediocre installment for the whole DC films and the fifth one so far (Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, Man of Steel and Batman v Superman being the previous 4). It goes again by saying that the people at WB see these properties with contempt. They only care about them making money and while Disney is letting Marvel do their own thing without too much intervention, WB is doing everything they can to fuck DC up. From idiotic focus groups and bad reviews leading to future movie re-shoots and Zack Snyder, the man who hates comic books, leading the charge, WB has shot themselves on the foot once again. It feels like they didn't learn anything from Superman IV and Batman & Robin.
Has there been any hint dropped at all that the studio is aware of the widespread disappointment with the DC Extended Universe so far and that they plan on bringing certain changes into their projects in development?
Just the moving of Johns and Berg to the head of the DC Films division going forward, announced in May.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#179 Post by dda1996a » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:39 am

captveg wrote:Because Man of Steel is excellent and BvS is really great. But I don't get why you have to spend so much time trying to justify your dislike of Snyder, so the feeling is mutual.
I know I'll get a lot of flak for this, and this is not me being arrogant, but what kind of cinema are you a fan of? As a big comic book fan Iam tired of all superheroes films, and DC are by far the worst at the moment (even though apocalypse is close) but I just found that it was more a personal change as I became more interested in deep characters and personal narratives (helped no less by being exposed to European art cinema and classic literature) that I began to like less superhero films, with only the ones that answer my need for what I look for (the Incredibles, batman begins).
Being perhaps the forum's only fan of MoS and BvS I'm just wondering if it is perhaps me growing up and needing more out of a film (as I'm one of the few who can care less about every marvel film since Iron Man 3 bar Ant-Man)

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#180 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:43 am

dda1996a wrote:what kind of cinema are you a fan of?
http://captveg.filmaf.com/owned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you wanna dig into what I own, want to own, didn't like, etc., feel free to peruse that link.

If you're asking if someone who likes MoS and BvS can also dare to like Ozu, Schlesinger, Keaton, Malick, Herzog, Wellman, and so on, the answer is generally yes. I'm not particularly into horror, but there are horror films I love; there are a few other situations like that. Being 37 I have another few thousand, maybe tens of thousands, movies I'd like to try to see before I die.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#181 Post by dda1996a » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:08 am

captveg wrote:
dda1996a wrote:what kind of cinema are you a fan of?
http://captveg.filmaf.com/owned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you wanna dig into what I own, want to own, didn't like, etc., feel free to peruse that link.

If you're asking if someone who likes MoS and BvS can also dare to like Ozu, Schlesinger, Keaton, Malick, Herzog, Wellman, and so on, the answer is generally yes. I'm not particularly into horror, but there are horror films I love; there are a few other situations like that. Being 37 I have another few thousand, maybe tens of thousands, movies I'd like to try to see before I die.
Being friends with people who ridicule me for loving Chaplin yet are fans of Sandler and rave about every super hero film that comes out just made me be careful in how I talk about movies with people (and that recent RT attack shows how fan boys overreact). I think my problem with these films now is that they feel so low stake. Sure Iron Man and Cap are not at best of terms at the moment, but is that really the biggest challenge the MCU faces right now? It features every cliche in the MCU screenplay 101 and I don't love it but Captain America 2 was the last film I felt had more consequences on the universe going forward, and even that had the last third of the film just be big sky explosions.
Can't really compare but just look at Godfather 1 & 2 to see how a sequel builds on events that happened in the first film. Now every superhero film just feels like another weekly TV series of old where the case get solved in said episode and we wait for next week for just a new case that will get solved.
People can rally against the 80s, or post Tarantino 90s, but I truly believe the post superhero explosion is truly the nadir of cinema. Just look at this year's summer offerings.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#182 Post by thirtyframesasecond » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:14 am

Well, I don't think it was particularly good. It just seemed a really half baked idea and not well executed at all and that's all down to David Ayer. There wasn't any interest in fleshing out any characterisation besides Harley's character, but even then it was written with the fifteen year old boy in mind. Fair play to Robbie though as she gives it everything. Seemed a really weak plot too; really join-the-dots stuff - let's see the bad guys aided by as someone said, the most obvious early 00s audio cues. Then let's see Joel Kinnamann go all hard-ass on them. Let's see them kill some bad guys thus earning Kinnamann's respect, etc. I wonder whether I could write this stuff sometimes. Plus, when the world is ending the one thing I want to see is Emmerich-esque cuts to other parts of the world for some nice national stereotyping. That would've helped.

Not sure what movie Leto was acting in but it seemed a different one to everyone else. But if you cast him you know what you'll get. Jai Courteney wasn't that terrible - it's just his character was a bit meh. Plus Diablo/Croc - their characters were so underwritten, you cut to them for some wise-crack or required plotting (why he won't use his powers).

Overall, well I'd rather watch this than an Avengers movie, mostly based on the fact the Avengers movies are boring.

Also, this must've been higher than a 15 really because the cinema was really really really vigilant on ID checks, which I've never seen (obviously not a problem for me though).

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#183 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:19 am

There are tradeoffs because of it being the current successful Hollywood formula, sure. But these things are cyclical and it will eventually have a market correction, if you will.

It's also pretty clear I have, often by far, the most mainstream tastes of the members of this forum, at least in regard to the films I more actively seek out. I don't hesitate to watch art house or foreign films, of course; rather I'm just not actively seeing as many, or maybe you'd say the ratio is different. But when I finally do get to see something like, say, The Devils, I have no problem loving that alongside Man of Steel for the wholly different reasons one can.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#184 Post by dda1996a » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:34 am

captveg wrote:There are tradeoffs because of it being the current successful Hollywood formula, sure. But these things are cyclical and it will eventually have a market correction, if you will.

It's also pretty clear I have, often by far, the most mainstream tastes of the members of this forum, at least in regard to the films I more actively seek out. I don't hesitate to watch art house or foreign films, of course; rather I'm just not actively seeing as many, or maybe you'd say the ratio is different. But when I finally do get to see something like, say, The Devils, I have no problem loving that alongside Man of Steel for the wholly different reasons one can.
Yeah I'm the last to judge. I grew to love Japanese exploitation cinema and am slowly getting into more American ones like Russian Meyer and Waters and even Italians (it's about time I start to see some Bava and Argento). I also never had issue with someone loving Tarkovsky and Jodorowsky being a fan of Joe Dante and Richard Donner. Cinema is diverse and each has their own taste. As long as you're not those people who consider Pulp Fiction and Interstellar and BvS as their holy Bible while having no clue who Paul and Wes Anderson all is well

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#185 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:36 am

MoS would be hard pressed to make my Top 100, let alone BvS.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#186 Post by dda1996a » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:50 am

I was just referring to IMDB ranking etc... Interstellar and Suicide Squad have a rating of about 9 last time I checked

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#187 Post by Andrew_VB » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:52 am

tenia wrote:Kinnaman's woodenness was an awful chore to watch. Fortunately, he doesnt have a lot of lines but each one of them is one too many.
i felt like he had so many lines and they were such a drag.
SpoilerShow
caring about his love story plot line to get the archaeologist back was impossible.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#188 Post by tenia » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:18 am

It's even worse than that. He says them in a wooden way, but the lines themselves are extremely poor.
As for its character and his connections with June Moore, all the developments can be guessed straight from the 20 1st minutes of the movie (including how the finale will end).

Such lack of any originality or even vague effort to have something a bit less obvious is one of my biggest concern with the movie. Everything about it is so obvious it made me stop caring very early.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#189 Post by Dead or Deader » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:57 pm

Wouldn't the Pulp Fiction/Nolan fanboys already know who Wes/Paul Thomas Anderson are? It's not like were refereeing to Michael Snow and Stan Brakhage. Both filmmakers are pretty mainstream artists who worked with huge stars and get a lot of attention from even the casual movie-goer.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#190 Post by Rayon Vert » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:24 pm

dda1996a wrote:I was just referring to IMDB ranking etc... Interstellar and Suicide Squad have a rating of about 9 last time I checked
Suicide Squad is 7.1 now.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#191 Post by Dead or Deader » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:43 pm

Only 0.2 points more then BvS!
Last edited by Dead or Deader on Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#192 Post by tenia » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:07 pm

Dead or Deader wrote:Wouldn't the Pulp Fiction/Nolan fanboys already know who Wes/Paul Thomas Anderson are? It's not like were refereeing to Michael Snow and Stan Brakhage. Both filmmakers are pretty mainstream artists who worked with huge stars and get a lot of attention from even the casual movie-goer.
I can see Wes Anderson being placed somewhere, but I think PT Anderson probably still remains rather unknown to the general audience (or at least it wouldn't surprise me).
Sure, it's not Stan Brakhage, but it's no Steven Spielberg either.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#193 Post by dx23 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:44 pm

captveg, let me take each one of your claims
So, the measure of success is critical opinion upon first release? So I guess you think Carpenter's The Thing is a bad film?

Or are you saying that box office is the measure of success? I point to The Thing again.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. The Thing, like many other films, became cult classics when they hit the VHS/DVD, HBO, and/or the cable markets. Man of Steel and Batman v Superman have already hit all of those markets and at least for Man of Steel, it still gets criticized for the same things as it was during release day and it doesn't look that it will become a cult classic at any point. As for Batman v Superman, the director's ultimate edition cut apparently improves the film from the theatrical version, so at least this version may become somewhat of a cult classic down the road. Still, the theatrical cut, was not the success critically and financially that WB expected and that's why they changed stuff from the already finished Suicide Squad and why Geoff Johns was promoted to head of the DC Cinematic Universe and President of DC Entertainment to see if things can get fixed much like the whole DC Comics is being worked to get fixed from the New 52 line failure.
Also, can I point out that Man of Steel's RT score is over 50%, which means a "majority of critics" liked it? Or what about general audience scores, which are above 65% for both? Is 65% now a minority %?
Rotten Tomatoes general score for Man of Steel is 55% and top critics is 49%. They grade the same as in almost any school in the country so basically, Man of Steel gets an F from everyone. The general audience score there is as flawed as the IMDB score. Both basically have been targets of fanboys looking to increase the score of the films to support their fanboy views of a film. It's certainly not a scientific poll or even close to what a Nielsen rating could do. Basically, I can create 100 emails and start voting 10s or 100s for the film I want.
I made a snarky remark because you speak in hyperbole and absolutes like you are the God of Film, and I think that's horseshit.
I'm not speaking in hyperbole. I'm showing you facts that you completely dismiss due to your bias liking of both films. Snyder made stupid comments about normal comic books and later on repeated them and expounded on them, like this:
Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. “Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, “No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.
to which legendary DC Comics writer Gerry Conway, responded in a series of Tweets
Fuck you, Zack Snyder. "Zack Snyder’s baffling vision for superhero movies, explained by Zack Snyder" https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.vox.co ... ice-league" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
and
The real mystery is why Warners gave him their whole superhero franchise after “Watchmen” and “Sucker Punch” flopped

You provided a quote where Snyder says he didn't connect to traditional comics when he was younger. Then you assume that he never had since. That's reading more into it than what he said. There are plenty of interviews where he discusses his love of Superman and Batman. They aren't hard to find.
See above. If he really loves either character, then he would have used a much better source material for it. Or simply Snyder is too obtuse and mediocre to change his dark vision of the world.
Keep the hate alive, LOL. So salty.

I won't lie to you to say I think MoS is less than excellent no matter how much you want me to conform. Fuck that. You can pound sand for all I care. I'm not gonna ever like Suicide Squad but I don't bitch and moan about it. If you don't like where the DCEU is going stop going to see them. No one is holding a gun to your head. I want these films to be great and 2/3 times I've been satisfied. If you just want me to repeat your thoughts as my thoughts you never will be satisfied, so maybe stop trying.
I'm not trying to change your mind to not like the movie. You can like whatever movie you want to like. I like some of the Police Academy movies, yet I know that they aren't good cinematically speaking. But you talk like Man of Steel is a great movie just because you liked it and when people disagree with you, then you resort to text speak, snark or go out of topic, like you did here. In addition, I have to see these films whether I like them or not. You probably aren't aware of the fact because I don't post as much here as I used to but I own several comic books stores. It's my investment/job away from my real job. I have to see all these comic book films as my customers will ask me what I think of them and to see how they will affect my business.

Lastly, this is the thread for Suicide Squad, right? So this is the place to bitch and moan about the film. The film is a cinematic failure. Horrible reviews. It's been only saved by the same DC fanboys that can't understand that we should not accept mediocrity. These are the same fanboys trying to shut down Rotten Tomatoes because their views don't align with the critics. Shit, even you seem to accept that it was a shitty film. So why can't I express that? Why can't I place the blame on Ayers who wrote/directed it, Snyder who produced it and has been pushing his narrow vision of film/comic books and Warner Brothers for continuing to be the meddlesome idiots who don't understand that creativity doesn't come from bean counters and focus groups?

Suicide Squad is particularly frustrating for me as WB/DC had changed their comic books and television properties to fit in into these stupid movie. The domino effect that this movie has on the DC properties is immense and instead of being the movie that finally put the DC Cinematic universe on the good side of film and comic book history, it just became another dud in a series of miscalculated and hotshotted projects.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#194 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:37 pm

dx23 wrote:Rotten Tomatoes general score for Man of Steel is 55% and top critics is 49%. They grade the same as in almost any school in the country so basically, Man of Steel gets an F from everyone.
This is not only a moving of the goalposts (you said majority, and 55% is a majority liking the film), but this is a basic misunderstanding of the RT%. The RT% isn't a grade rating, but an aggregate Yes or No. 55% of the critics liked the movie, 45% didn't. There's no other way to interpret the RT% in any honest way. This isn't an "F" as to the quality of the movie, but rather only to the binary Y/N.

dx23 wrote:I'm not speaking in hyperbole. I'm showing you facts that you completely dismiss due to your bias liking of both films. Snyder made stupid comments about normal comic books and later on repeated them and expounded on them, like this:
Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. “Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, “No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.
He said this during the promotion of Watchmen. Context, context, context. Listen to what the man says during interviews about his efforts on Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. That he likes seeing the characters face dire circumstances doesn't mean he doesn't care about them any less than those that like to see the characters save kittens and flirt with Catwoman.
dx23 wrote:But you talk like Man of Steel is a great movie just because you liked it
No, I believe thematically, structurally, visually, and in its characterizations its a great film. If I wanted to I could probably write a few thousand words breaking down the film and going into detail about all those, but would anyone here bother to read it?
dx23 wrote:Shit, even you seem to accept that [Suicide Squad] was a shitty film. So why can't I express that? Why can't I place the blame on... Snyder who produced it and has been pushing his narrow vision of film/comic books and Warner Brothers for continuing to be the meddlesome idiots who don't understand that creativity doesn't come from bean counters and focus groups?
First, to clarify, I thought Suicide Squad was a mostly mediocre film with shitty elements and a few (in the minority) good elements. That's why I gave it a 5/10. Something has to score 3/10 or lower for me to declare something an outright bad film with almost no positive attributes that is not even worth bothering with (i.e, "shitty"). This speaks a little to the hyperbole that online conversation inspires and why it drives me crazy. All nuance is gone when films are only either great or terrible. There's a lot in the 4-8/10 range that are neither.

Second, I don't care about someone expressing their dislike of something. What boggles my mind is why people *repeatedly* seek out discussing things they don't like. (You explaining your comic store connection at least brings in some needed context). Now that I've seen SS and it's not something I enjoyed I said my part and then left it at that. I doubt I'll be discussing its merits (or lack thereof) again anytime soon. Why even spend the time? There are other far more worthy things to discuss. So since I've seen the film the only involvement I've really had in this thread were for these peripheral topics I do feel enthusiastic about, or like in the blu-ray forums I'm trying to dispel some dumb box office myths. But the movie itself? Yeah, what else is there to say? And why bemoan Ayer beyond my initial criticism of his work?

As for Snyder, I've never read a single article that states he was creatively involved with SS beyond having established the DCEU timeline of macro events, and doing a favor for Ayer by getting a small bit of footage for the film. Otherwise, everything I've read has been simply him welcoming Ayer into the family to do his thing. Unfortunately, his thing didn't tell a proper story, which is pretty much on Ayer as far as I'm concerned. So, why bring up Snyder yet again and complain about the same things when in regards to what he's working on (JL) nothing has actually changed from a week ago?
dx23 wrote:Suicide Squad is particularly frustrating for me as WB/DC had changed their comic books and television properties to fit in into these stupid movie.
Well, I can't say I care much about this, because everything I've seen of Arrow, Gotham and Supergirl is pretty lame in general, IMO. (Again, there's that taste factor). I get they have their fans (and Flash looks to be better than the ones I have sampled), but this isn't a concern on my particular radar.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#195 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:43 pm

Dead or Deader wrote:Only 2.0 points more then BvS!
.2

(BvS is 6.9, SS is 7.1)

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#196 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:44 pm

this thread has devolved into the most basic "I love movies more than you" type of beginner's argument. dx23 how old are you? I feel this is essential in understanding why you type everything you do.

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#197 Post by dx23 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:42 pm

This is not only a moving of the goalposts (you said majority, and 55% is a majority liking the film), but this is a basic misunderstanding of the RT%. The RT% isn't a grade rating, but an aggregate Yes or No. 55% of the critics liked the movie, 45% didn't. There's no other way to interpret the RT% in any honest way. This isn't an "F" as to the quality of the movie, but rather only to the binary Y/N.
It's more than a binary Y/N and again you missed the point of the whole thing or simply only like to mention what benefits to your argument. You clearly dismissed that 49% of the Top Critics like it and that the 65% non-critic rating is flawed.
He said this during the promotion of Watchmen. Context, context, context. Listen to what the man says during interviews about his efforts on Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. That he likes seeing the characters face dire circumstances doesn't mean he doesn't care about them any less than those that like to see the characters save kittens and flirt with Catwoman.
Again, using cynicism to circumvent a discussion. I've seen the interviews, and I know he did that interview when Watchmen was coming out. And of course, he will say nice things about Batman, Superman and the rest of the capes because he was doing films with those characters in it. Context, context, context. Basically, he has treated Batman, Superman and every other character he has touched like if he was doing Watchmen again.
No, I believe thematically, structurally, visually, and in its characterizations its a great film. If I wanted to I could probably write a few thousand words breaking down the film and going into detail about all those, but would anyone here bother to read it?
I'm interested in reading it because it would give me more of an understanding of where you are coming from. Right now, you just say that you believe it's a great film but don't explain why. I thought the purpose of this forum was to do this.
First, to clarify, I thought Suicide Squad was a mostly mediocre film with shitty elements and a few (in the minority) good elements. That's why I gave it a 5/10. Something has to score 3/10 or lower for me to declare something an outright bad film with almost no positive attributes that is not even worth bothering with (i.e, "shitty"). This speaks a little to the hyperbole that online conversation inspires and why it drives me crazy. All nuance is gone when films are only either great or terrible. There's a lot in the 4-8/10 range that are neither.

Second, I don't care about someone expressing their dislike of something. What boggles my mind is why people *repeatedly* seek out discussing things they don't like. (You explaining your comic store connection at least brings in some needed context). Now that I've seen SS and it's not something I enjoyed I said my part and then left it at that. I doubt I'll be discussing its merits (or lack thereof) again anytime soon. Why even spend the time? There are other far more worthy things to discuss. So since I've seen the film the only involvement I've really had in this thread were for these peripheral topics I do feel enthusiastic about, or like in the blu-ray forums I'm trying to dispel some dumb box office myths. But the movie itself? Yeah, what else is there to say? And why bemoan Ayer beyond my initial criticism of his work?

As for Snyder, I've never read a single article that states he was creatively involved with SS beyond having established the DCEU timeline of macro events, and doing a favor for Ayer by getting a small bit of footage for the film. Otherwise, everything I've read has been simply him welcoming Ayer into the family to do his thing. Unfortunately, his thing didn't tell a proper story, which is pretty much on Ayer as far as I'm concerned. So, why bring up Snyder yet again and complain about the same things when in regards to what he's working on (JL) nothing has actually changed from a week ago?
So basically, a discussion with you has to be about the positive aspects of a film, and if it's negative, then you don't want to hear about it? So I'm supposed to swallow my opinion of a film if I find it negative? Like I mentioned before, I was excited to see that Suicide Squad was going to be made as a film. I still feel that the concept and name have a chance of succeeding if the right writers and directors come along and play with it. Am I supposed to ignore the film that is our right now until a good Suicide Squad film comes along? Who are you to say what is worthy or not to discuss?

Ayers gets the majority of the blame cause he wrote it and directed this crap. Simple as that. The movie's failure falls on him. It also falls on Snyder. Snyder was the architect of the DC Cinematic Universe until Geoff Johns got promoted. He's the one that put the look, feel and stories in motion. That's why he directed that part with the Flash. That's why the movie is heavily connected to Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. And that's why Snyder takes the blame here too. He built the foundation and then told others to follow his plan and vision. And yes, things have changed thing last week. Johns will now supervise and do any re-writes and re-shoots that he deems necessary. WB and DC Comics are under extreme pressure to have Justice League to do well overall.
Well, I can't say I care much about this, because everything I've seen of Arrow, Gotham and Supergirl is pretty lame in general, IMO. (Again, there's that taste factor). I get they have their fans (and Flash looks to be better than the ones I have sampled), but this isn't a concern on my particular radar.
Well, I can tell you that because of the Suicide Squad movie, the writers on Arrow were told to not use any of the characters anymore (Deadshot had already appeared on both Arrow and Flash, Harley had a cameo and Amanda Waller was a main recurring character on the show). The producers of Arrow had to completely change plans for their 3rd and 4th season which was supposed to focus on Arrow and Flash fighting the Suicide Squad. The Amanda Waller character from the television show got killed because of this too in a very anti-climatic fashion.

***MOD EDIT: removal of inflammatory rhetoric***

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#198 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:52 pm

carmilla mircalla wrote:this thread has devolved into the most basic "I love movies more than you" type of beginner's argument. dx23 how old are you? I feel this is essential in understanding why you type everything you do.
Do not make arguments on this forum hinging on calling your opponent a child or engaging in this level of rhetoric again

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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#199 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:54 pm

MOD WARNING: Everyone needs to cool the fuck out or I'm locking this thread and the Joker's reign of anarchy will continue unabated

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captveg
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#200 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:12 pm

dx23 wrote: what benefits to your argument. You clearly dismissed that 49% of the Top Critics like it and that the 65% non-critic rating is flawed.
So, just Top Critics now? These are the arbitrary lines that make every argument based in stats pointless. Pick the stats you want to support your viewpoint while disregardng those that dont, because of flaws, or whatever reasoning.

Suicide Squad has an A+ Cinemascore from the under 35 demographic, apparently. Ultimately that means nothing to someone like me who didn't like it, but I would never argue that the under 35 crowd in the first weekend didn't enjoy it.
And of course, he will say nice things about Batman, Superman and the rest of the capes because he was doing films with those characters in it. Context, context, context. Basically, he has treated Batman, Superman and every other character he has touched like if he was doing Watchmen again.
So why don't you accept him at his word that he has grown to love these characters? If he loves different aspects of them than you do that doesn't justify you essentially calling him a liar and saying he hates the characters.

I disagree about the Watchmen characterizations, of course. Superman in the two films has the same moral core he's always had. That's it's being challenged by the society around him doesn't change that. The fact that he comes through the refiner's fire triumphant and willing to sacrifice all is about as pure a take on Superman as one can have, IMO.

As for Batman, this is hardly the first story to push him to the edge and fringes of his psyche.
I'm interested in reading it because it would give me more of an understanding of where you are coming from. Right now, you just say that you believe it's a great film but don't explain why. I thought the purpose of this forum was to do this.
Well, I'm reluctant to take the time to dive in deep on this forum because experience says if I'm the lone voice here for something I don't get taken seriously (at least it feels that way to me). So I've found it not worth the time to gather my thoughts in great detail here, especially in a thread about another film. My views are out there in other forums; I can try to dig them up and link to them/repost them in the MoS thread if you're truly interested.
So basically, a discussion with you has to be about the positive aspects of a film, and if it's negative, then you don't want to hear about it?
Pretty much. I don't mind a negative review, but I have little interest in revisiting negative points over and over. It makes film discussion circle around things I don't like rather than things I do like. I didn't get into enjoying cinema to talk about the things I don't like.
So I'm supposed to swallow my opinion of a film if I find it negative?
No. I simply will never understand why you would spend the time beyond an initial evaluation. I mean I literally do not comprehend why people use their limited time on this Earth to discuss in detail for long periods of time the things they didn't enjoy.

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