159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

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Orlac
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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#51 Post by Orlac » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:56 pm

Any news on replacing the faulty discs?

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Adam X
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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#52 Post by Adam X » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:09 am

from a recent reply on the book of faces:
Indicator wrote:the investigation timetable is out of our hands as it's a manufacturing issue. But rest assured that the second we hear anything, we'll let everyone know.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#53 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:26 pm

I halted my progress with this set a while ago after a few lackluster viewings, but I watched Prey today and absolutely loved it. It may not be a Great Movie, but I admired how eclectic and condensed Warren approached its strange hybrid of material. I suppose that it’s first and foremost a horror movie since the plot involves simultaneous narrative interests in nefarious carnivorous alien invaders who inexplicably resemble zombie vampires, coupled with a more human murder 'mystery', with a diverse style occasionally reminiscent of future slasher povs and a formula emulating the psycho-chick pulp thriller side of giallo. But it’s also reshaping its style and formula to predominately engage in restrained melodrama- and by that I don't mean that this isn't dripping with heightened-emotions, or posturing at borderline-exploitation fluff, but that a lot of the interplay is objectively observed from a distance. Its brewing psychosexual tension and some of the reactive gestures between the principals are admirably ambiguous and understated, reminding me of some of the Pinter/Losey collabs on identity and nebulous drives in interpersonal chamber scenarios that are inherently chock full of relentless social comparison and insecurity-ignition.

And yet, the film exceeds even this already-wide range of genre trappings, since there are prevalent noir tropes built in. The film reminded me of Blood Simple’s series of secrets brewing absurd isolated associations, except that they all turn out to be true! (Not a spoiler, since we don't ever get 'evidence' beyond what's initially found for the only information elided, but it's more than enough to support the fear as truth) I love how Jessica is confessing fears about her lover to an alien who wants to kill her while neither of them has any idea what’s going on - and because we have no single surrogate (and Warren cultivates and sustains an entry position for us that's perfectly wedged between aloofness reinforcing behaviorist analysis and affirming proximity to our principals' feelings), we’re just watching everyone confused, each uniquely blind to what is actually occurring internally with the others.

Even the character I was most concerned about being one-note at the start -the jealous maybe-murderess lover, Jo- becomes complex, and one of the many great ironies embedded in this mess of warped sensibilities is how she's gaslit in her valid skepticism. Her problematically obsessive jealousy is refurbished into an asset in diagnosing the problem, and then understandably discarded as baseless charges, since there's ample evidence for her own mental instability and potential history of deception and murder! The internal logic of the dynamic between Jessica and Jo, and how their interactions play out, is appropriately irrational as well- with the two women getting along intimately and cooperating on tasks one minute, only to acutely descend into a state of being completely at-odds with committed threats the next. I love the scene where all three of them are in the pond thrashing around as the alien is drowning, expressed with deeply-felt slo-mo drama, itself drowned in an intrusive electronic score. It's gorgeously shot, capturing the earnest hysteria of the situation for all principals- who are actually interconnected on the same wavelength for maybe the only time in the whole film! Of course, this immediately transitions to a scene culminating in a very human emotional climax of violence, with the most definitive villain as the bystander!

Layering on the absurdist nuances, Jo's controlling behavior bordering on abusive captivity actually holds water in this case, even if sourced in codependency and for the wrong reasons. She winds up being right when the sexual adventurousness of Jessica is met with a certain fate- ironically right before her 'savior' could do the same! The subsequent trip into the grave is equally ironic, to eclipse the whole ride of having fun observing pathos of fatalistic alienation- which seems to be the main theme here. The exhibition of Jo's own split emotional parts is played out as more sad and humane than pejoratively schizophrenic, which is how a lesser movie would fit her into a cackling stereotype. The scene where she digs a grave is sensational, her verbal and nonverbal eruptions of expression fluctuating between mourning love, her own self-preservation, and furious hatred. This is portrayed as a symptom of her own inner psychological conflict and impotency to achieve intimacy with her socio-romantic ideal, and we feel as much or more empathy witnessing her prepare for violence than we pathologize her for an insecurity in response to substantiated masculine threats, even if we don't condone the reactive actions of harm that follow.

So this is at once a tragic sociological examination of three 'people' deterministically thinking and feeling and acting past one another, and a delicious antisocial dark comedy - but it's far from the uneven work such an incongruous blend suggests. Actually, the film's greatest strength is that, despite casting a wide net in terms of aesthetic methodology and subject-exploration, the tone finds a consistently-applied focus amidst its simmering lunacy. One second it’s a very corporeal melodrama emerging from a pretty beautiful love scene that manages to transcend its sexploitation exterior, and the next this vacuumed hypnosis is ruptured by an observing alien reporting on making contact with humans for feeding... but somehow the transition feels seamless, the involving tone never sacrificed or dismissed as trivial. It’s a low-budget sci-fi horror melodrama thriller, but it’s also approaching the script with sincerity and care, and I think it earns viewer investment on the surprisingly-adult level it's pitched. The acting is much better than I expected too- especially the main two women, who sell a C-movie story with A-level effort. Overall, this is miles better than it has any right to be, and a welcome relic of great fun from the box set!

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#54 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:35 pm

I may return to post writeups on the rest of this set depending on if there's anything that inspires me to take a deeper analytical dive, but after revisiting some of the films I didn't care for so much the first time and sampling parts of the others, I have to say that this is a uniformly incredibly set. While I'm not sure if any of the other films I've seen have as much thematic depth as Prey, they're all just so well directed. It's unsurprising that Warren has a background in editing, since he not only has complete mastery over the aesthetic look and angle of every frame, but they're strung together at a perfect pace. Even if these are ultimately concocted of B-movie materials, they're all effectively extravagant and spellbinding in how we're invited into a vacuum of subjectivity - not with any particular character but as someone right there in the room, or in the frosty autumn air at dusk, or wherever Warren has the courtesy to place us. Each outing is a full-sensory experience, and contains some of the most masterful cinematography I've encountered in horror cinema, let alone low-budget fare - with nothing more impressive than some of the controlled experimentalism in the final film of the set. As I said above in response to Prey, these films are miles better than they have any right to be, and I'm becoming more convinced that in pitching themselves as sincerely as they do, and earning that sincerity with formalist nurturing, they transform into a higher form of Art - or at least enough moments of them risk doing so, which I'd argue comprehensively accomplishes a task likely unintended, but thoroughly rewarding.

Are there any other Warren films worth checking out?

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colinr0380
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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#55 Post by colinr0380 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:20 am

Wonderful posts twbbs! I would certainly agree on Prey, which can be quite abrasive in tone (but also perhaps prevents everything from overbalancing to the extent where one character being too sympathetic could end up tipping us too much against the other two. Which is quite a feat when a cannibalistic alien is a member of the trio!) but is also a fascinating and unorthodox exploration of relationship dynamics! I really like and agree with MichaelB's earlier comment too that the film doesn't neatly fit into the arthouse-grindhouse-mainstream pigeonholes, which can be something that I could see frustrating people coming at the film entirely from any one of those perspectives but which also gives the film its unique qualities as well.

As with my feeling that Human Centipede 2 is made much more entertaining if viewed through the lens of it being a Mike Leigh film gone horribly wrong, it could be easy to see Prey as a wonky take on a chamber drama in the style of Harold Pinter (or Joe Orton!), just with sci-fi and exploitation elements!

twbbs, the films in this set are those that Norman J. Warren are most known for but I would certainly like to see the couple of films that have not been released as yet. And your post reminds me that I need to get back to going through the BFI Flipside titles again, since they released Her Private Hell, one of Warren's earliest films, in that series. Have you seen any of the films by Pete Walker? Walker was working in the same field during the same period and the best of his films have a similarly tangy mixture of pure exploitation and surprisingly barbed social commentary, especially Frightmare and House of Whipcord.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#56 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:22 pm

It’s funny because I don’t find any of these films’ tones to be “abrasive” - if anything, they have all the ingredients of fulfilling that expected feeling but instead produce a comfortably ethereal sensation. The way Warren approaches his text seems to exist in a sweet spot between the intangible transcendental and the very corporeal realities of who and what he’s showing us. That effect is perfect for these kinds of films that want us to relate to the melodrama and also remain in unsettled awe at the supernatural (and, in the case of Prey, the supernatural/ungraspable enigmatic stimuli isn’t the alien- who’s cheekily used as a background object, continually kept as an emasculated extra or as an ear until the climax when we remember he’s a threat!- but the ability to connect with another person on an honest human level!) Satan’s Slave engages in a thrilling first act of creative narrative pivoting before basically turning into Lisa and the Devil if reimagined as less of a full-tilt exercise in atmospheric stimulation. Consequently, we’re provoked in a different, more balanced space between our internal processing and the image: the eeriness of the narrative, mise en scene, and narrative destabilizing works fluidly, rather than abrasively at odds with the consumingly sober scenes of going for a walk in the Fall woods and having authentically unexceptional interactions with new people. Rarely has a film of this assumed-caliber captured that feeling of combined anxiety and serenity at engaging with strangers we feel an attraction to, for reasons we’re not quite sure of. I don’t know how Warren fluctuates so seamlessly between these beautiful moments and the more psychedelic horror, but I think the key exists in his recognition of his limitations. He wouldn’t succeed in establishing this broad feast if he heightened up the aesthetic noise like the Argento films some of these are compared to. But, as in Terror (the Suspiria-imitator, I suppose), the result is in giving us something more peripherally detailed in its own way- only regarding interests outside of one pool that isn’t being mined to death, because it can’t be.

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#57 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:13 am

colinr0380 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:10 am
Inseminoid is primarily indebted to Alien (and really shows how having a man being impregnated in Alien was perhaps an inspired choice to dodge a lot of the dodgier aspects of such a scene, as all of these post-Alien exploitation films almost inevitably putting a woman in that position go on to underline!), but in its impregnation scene it feels quite influenced by Demon Seed too!
I'm not sure what it says about me that I loved Inseminoid more than either of these influences! Okay, I hate Demon Seed and Alien is a better film in many respects, but this plays out like a slasher set in an isolated sci-fi context reminiscent of The Thing and its exhilarating pleasures are sourced in eschewing any predictability in narrative checkpoints or spacial blueprints, an inversion of the shapeshifting monster projected onto environmental and story arcs. So unlike Scott's masterpiece, this keeps us continually lost in sublime chaos, trapped in a labyrinthine cave where we have no sense of structure for our own navigation. It reminded me of Assayas' Boarding Gate, of all things, when Asia Argento is running through the underground prison and we become eclipsed by the destruction of sensory-based compasses, swallowed up by the obliteration of schematic comprehension. But it's also a good ol' fashioned B-horror with A-level craftsmanship. Why don't more artists make wacky, eclectic, explosively surreal and sincerely-pitched ungrounding horror like this? Probably because- I can't begin to imagine how to start marketing this

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#58 Post by MichaelB » Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:38 am

colinr0380 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:10 am
One of the interesting aspects of many of these films is that they are often combinations of inspirations from other films rather than just one, so Inseminoid is primarily indebted to Alien (and really shows how having a man being impregnated in Alien was perhaps an inspired choice to dodge a lot of the dodgier aspects of such a scene, as all of these post-Alien exploitation films almost inevitably putting a woman in that position go on to underline!), but in its impregnation scene it feels quite influenced by Demon Seed too!
Sorry for not spotting this three years ago, but Inseminoid was written prior to the release of Alien, so it's not indebted to it at all, "primarily" or otherwise. The existence of Alien is presumably the reason why Warren was able to muster the biggest budget that he'd ever enjoyed, but the ideas in the film were present and (politically in-)correct before anyone concerned had seen Ridley Scott's film.

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#59 Post by Robin Davies » Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:58 am

I like Warren's films but I must admit I'm surprised (and pleased) to see them receiving such lavish encomia from therewillbeblus.
Even Warren felt that the pond scene in Prey went on for too long!
What do you think of Bloody New Year? I like the sheer mad unpredictability of it but I seem to remember Warren admitted it was a bit of a mess, partly due to problems with the producer.

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#60 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:30 am

MichaelB wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:38 am
colinr0380 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:10 am
One of the interesting aspects of many of these films is that they are often combinations of inspirations from other films rather than just one, so Inseminoid is primarily indebted to Alien (and really shows how having a man being impregnated in Alien was perhaps an inspired choice to dodge a lot of the dodgier aspects of such a scene, as all of these post-Alien exploitation films almost inevitably putting a woman in that position go on to underline!), but in its impregnation scene it feels quite influenced by Demon Seed too!
Sorry for not spotting this three years ago, but Inseminoid was written prior to the release of Alien, so it's not indebted to it at all, "primarily" or otherwise. The existence of Alien is presumably the reason why Warren was able to muster the biggest budget that he'd ever enjoyed, but the ideas in the film were present and (politically in-)correct before anyone concerned had seen Ridley Scott's film.
Thanks for the clarification, though maybe the Demon Seed point still stands, especially in the suspiciously similar trippy impregnation scene in both films? (Perhaps, as with the best exploitation cinema, the pre-written story took on certain qualities of those successful films around it, such as Demon Seed and Alien? Much as it is difficult to see Bloody New Year divorced from the Shining and Evil Dead resonances?) I suppose to amend the main point I was making about Alien then, that film (and the Alien series in general) managed to dodge a lot of the dodgier aspects of alien impregnation in the films that surrounded it (before or after) by putting a male character in that situation. And holding back in that aspect really helped Aliens to capitalise on that aspect of women chest bursting by tying into the whole 'motherhood' theme of that film, from nightmare opening, through to woman trapped in the hive, to Ripley's relationship with Newt, and showdown between two matriachs in the multiple climaxes (birthing pains?) of that film.

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#61 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:54 am

Robin Davies wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:58 am
What do you think of Bloody New Year? I like the sheer mad unpredictability of it but I seem to remember Warren admitted it was a bit of a mess, partly due to problems with the producer.
There were moments when I thought it might be my favorite in the set, and then others when I wasn't quite as invested- but that's the risk when you throw everything at the wall. I absolutely loved some of the camerawork- like in the dizzying carnival ride at the start and in some of the chase scenes later, through the grass, etc. Overall I respected it a lot, and felt it functioned like a "Celine and Julie Go to a Haunted Island"- starting with the pull through the closet/mirror and effectively capturing a kind of dreamy elasticity of reality for the rest of the runtime, albeit one that descends into nightmare at times- but that's the risk when you give yourself over to the control of sleep, fantasy, or an unpredictably provocative filmmaker like Warren!

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#62 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:56 pm

Inseminoid is a scrappy b-movie that manages to be more successful than a lot of its brethren (would that the films in the American Horror Project box had had half the competence Warren musters here). But the idea that anyone would prefer it to Alien boggles my mind. It's at its best in the first act, before it becomes a slasher in which the victims don't make stupid decisions, they make the exact same stupid decision, singular, over and over. But the first act's failure to explain itself properly does lend a delirious energy and productive confusion to what, at that point, is a story of people behaving erratically for no good reason. My favourite scene, couched somewhere between lunatic nightmare and black joke, is the women who immediately goes to pieces because she can't attach two wires together after 5 seconds of trying, but is completely ok with sawing her own leg off. That the film then casually reveals her to've frozen to death half way through is pretty funny. I liked stuff like that; I wish there were more of it and less of Judy Gleeson traipsing around the tunnels screaming.

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#63 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Nov 07, 2022 4:40 pm

Well yeah, it's ridiculous to say I prefer Inseminoid to Alien, especially when I've just seen the former and have watched the Scott classic tens of times since I was... ten. I'm comparing a familiar, and pretty lucid and structured narrative with this kind of throw-everything-at-the-wall soup of creativity, riding the high of recency bias. I think I was just so inspired by how erratic this was, and for how long that went on, that I digested all the superfluous and elongated fluff as extra candy rather than irritating fat, regardless of its necessity... because none of this is necessary! Gleeson's manic trudging does indeed go on forever- I couldn't believe that there was still like twenty minutes left when I checked the time at the kickoff of the last act, but I was grateful to have every second of that time, even if it was repetitive. I can totally understand why that would be annoying to some - just like Lifeforce, another movie I just watched the other day and loved for its disorderly projection of extravagant sleaze that went on forever. Maybe I'm just in the mood for watching movies that show we something new, and rating these films according to my appreciation for meeting that desire. While they fit familiar models, Warren is coming at these contexts from a unique angle, and it's been a while since I've seen B-movies that transcend their faux-trappings quite so often and toward such splendid heights.

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#64 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:13 pm

I don't think I found the movie quite as novel or unexpected as you, but Lifeforce is a good touchstone. Both movies are goofy fun and worth embracing for their energy. I'd've loved to've seen what Warren could've done with Inseminoid if he'd had Hooper's budget.

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#65 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:17 pm

Yeah, same. I actually think Warren is very skilled at deflecting awareness to his budgetary constraints. I know I've talked about it already, but in Satan's Slave, there are scenes that are shot in a way that produce impressively involving meditations on the natural scenery of an Autumn day, and in general his style is so sleek that when he eventually does go full-force with effects, they work seamlessly. He just seems to have an eye for capturing the best photography he can with what he has. Inseminoid takes place entirely within an enclosed sci-fi environment of barren detail, so it's kinda losing that opportunity to bask in organic pleasures of scenery, but I do think he capitalizes on the reverse-effect: making great use of obliterating our sense of space, which coerces a surrender to whatever the fuck is going on. Even if it's due to a lack of budget, I never really noticed, because the entrancing sensationalist interventions trumped opportunities to get distance from the material to access or dwell in that cognizance

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#66 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:07 pm

The other film I would group Inseminoid in with would be the Roger Corman production Galaxy of Terror (spoilers), which features production design by James Cameron (with his future regular effects collaborator Robert Skotak) and apparently Bill Paxton worked on the sets!

Presumably Corman's other related production from the same time, Forbidden World, too although I still have not got to that disc in my 'to watch' pile as yet!

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Re: 159 Bloody Terror: The Shocking Cinema of Norman J Warren 1976-1987

#67 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:39 pm

I've been making my way through Warren's other stuff: Her Private Hell is a solid if slight descent into the subjectivity of a model experiencing exploitation via the physiological sensations of social intrusion, so Warren's style is well-suited to it. I'll probably wait to pick up the BFI disc in order to sample his associated shorts. I wasn't fond of Loving Couples though, which I can't believe is made by the same filmmaker. Any fingerprints that could hint at a photographic eye are missing, and all I can muster up to say about it is my least favorite critique: "boring," so I'll leave it at that. The only one left I have access to is Outer Touch- I don't have high hopes, but we'll see. If I don't report back, I either died watching it because it's terrible or it's Infinite Jest retitled

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