All-Region DVD and Blu-ray Player Advice

Discuss internationally-released DVDs and Blu-rays or other international DVD and Blu-ray-related topics.
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jt
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:47 am
Location: zurich

#101 Post by jt » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:35 am

Schreck, I'd take an educated guess that more than half of the 'normal' people you send an RCE R1 dvd to won't be able to play it straight out of the box. I have many friends/ family mambers who buy their equipment from big department stores and have no idea what regions are.
I'd guess 25% of the recipients are aware of region coding and will be prepared for it, 25% will inadvertently have multi-region players and 50% will have no clue at all. The RCE issue is a smaller one that will probably nix a few of the multi-region users whose players can't handle it. My old Marantz player has no problem with RCE after performing a simple remote hack but I have a friend who is multi-region but can't play RCE discs.

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

#102 Post by Tommaso » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:14 am

How common are RCE discs? I never encountered any problem with my R1 discs, but then I almost never buy anything from the major studios (or my player can handle RCE anyway). The thing worries me nevertheless, if that is a way for companies to bypass region-free equipment. Let's only hope CC won't adopt it.

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Kinsayder
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:22 pm
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#103 Post by Kinsayder » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:37 am

Tommaso wrote:How common are RCE discs?
Not very, in my experience. This is from Wikipedia's entry on Region Code Enhanced discs:
Also known as just "RCE" or "REA". This was a retroactive attempt to prevent the playing of one region's discs in another region, even if the disc was played in a region free player. In practice, the scheme was only ever deployed on a handful of discs. The disc contained the main programme material region coded as region 1. But it also contained a short video loop of a map of the world showing the regions, which was coded as region 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. The idea was that when the disc was played in a non-region 1 player, the player would default to playing the material for its native region. This played the map which it was impossible to escape from, as the user controls were disabled.

However, the designers of the scheme failed to fully understand the mechanism by which region-free players worked, and thus a workaround was quickly found. A region-free player tries to play a disc using the last region that worked with the previously inserted disc. If it can not play the disc, then it tries another region until one is found that works. RCE could thus be defeated by briefly playing a "normal" region 1 disc, and then inserting the RCE protected region 1 disc, which would now play. RCE did cause a few problems with genuine region 1 players.

As of 2007 many "multi-region" DVD players defeat regional lockout and RCE by automatically identifying and matching a disc's region code and/or allowing the user to manually select a particular region. Some manufacturers of DVD players now freely supply information on how to disable regional lockout, and on some recent models, it appears to be disabled by default.
The Fox R1 of Murnau's Sunrise has RCE. However, it plays fine on my UK multiregion equipment.

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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#104 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:49 am

Kinsayder wrote:[The Fox R1 of Murnau's Sunrise has RCE. However, it plays fine on my UK multiregion equipment.
Interesting, as that's the release I own and never had a problem on my aussie pioneer either.

solent

#105 Post by solent » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:53 pm

I've tested at least 5 players that have "Region 4" stamped on the back [Sony, Toshiba, LG, Panasonic] and all are region free. Only my father - who bought a cheapie from a dept. store - has a true R4 only player. (He didn't care until he asked to borrow my boxset of THE GOOD LIFE which is strictly R2.) Most people I know don't know or care that they have a region free player.

All 2 Entertain BBC discs from the UK are R2 & R4 which surprised me since there is an Aussie market for BBC discs here: different packaging & identical discs.

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domino harvey
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#106 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:41 pm

I just got my DV-980H and yowza, what a beaut
Keep your BluRay players, this is more than enough for any sane individual

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Captain Bracegirdle
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:02 pm
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#107 Post by Captain Bracegirdle » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:00 am

I just bought a Toshiba HD-E1 (HD DVD-player) at half the price of any Oppo-player. It was easy to make it region-free for SD-DVDs (HD DVDs are not region coded). It upscales to 1080i and 720p.

Wholeheartedly recommended!

mteller
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:23 pm

#108 Post by mteller » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:03 pm

As I stated in another thread, my reason for not having an all-region player is because my main player is currently a PS3 (which I also use for other things) and I don't want to have an extra player sitting around only to be used for watching the occasional import. It may sound fussy, but screw it, I don't like clutter.

There is an additional factor too, along the same lines as what subliminac said. If I suddenly had all-region capabilities, I'd quickly go broke buying imports! I've learned to enjoy the wait for R1 releases of my favorite movies (although some, like Satyajit Ray, are making me increasingly impatient).

I will say that I hope to be unfettered by region codes at some point in the future, but I do have a technical question. Do you need a region-free TELEVISION as well? I'm concerned that my TV might not be able to display a PAL signal, but I don't know if that's a concern.

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arsonfilms
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#109 Post by arsonfilms » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:14 pm

This isn't quite the right place to discuss it, so our conversation may be moved, but most region-free players you can buy will convert a PAL signal to NTSC. Your TV won't support a PAL signal, but as long as you make sure the player you buy isn't outputting a native PAL signal, you will be fine.

I'm not region locked, but mostly because my primary player is my laptop, which means I can watch a native PAL signal. I still buy US editions whenever possible, but when I do buy non-US discs its either because the edition I'm buying is vastly superior to the US edition (most MoC's, AEs, etc.), the film is not available in the US, or the deal is just way too good to pass up. Thats right, sometimes its actually CHEAPER to buy from the UK and pay for shipping overseas than to buy the US edition. Plus, MoC, AE and BFI will frequently release the stuff that Kino or Image winds up ruining over here, and the UK stuff will actually go on sale every now and then. Be careful about what you get and when, but its worth making the leap.

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fiddlesticks
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:19 pm
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#110 Post by fiddlesticks » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:39 pm

subliminac wrote:
Michael Kerpan wrote:Since passable multi-region players cost only about as much as two Criterion SE releases, the _cost_ of multi-region players should not deter anyone from picking up excellent discs from outside R1.
Its not so much the players as it is the imported disks that become cost prohibitive. I've pretty much ruled out any purchases from continental Europe due to the terrible exchange rate between the euro and the dollar. UK disks generally aren't too bad though, usually equaling the price of an upper tier Criterion.
But on the other hand, being region-free allows you to indulge in Region 3 (and 6) discs from East Asia, which are sold in USD from vendors like YesAsia and HKFlix. There's a whole world of Asian cinema not available in R1 or R2 than can be had for reasonable prices.
arsonfilms wrote:This isn't quite the right place to discuss it, so our conversation may be moved, but most region-free players you can buy will convert a PAL signal to NTSC. Your TV won't support a PAL signal, but as long as you make sure the player you buy isn't outputting a native PAL signal, you will be fine.
FWIW, some televisions can handle both native NTSC and PAL signals. I have one from Sceptre which automatically switches to whichever standard is being fed to it. My limited experience is that watching PAL in native PAL is far superior to watching it converted to NTSC, so much so that it's worth looking for this capability for your next TV.

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

#111 Post by Tommaso » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:03 am

fiddlesticks wrote:FWIW, some televisions can handle both native NTSC and PAL signals. I have one from Sceptre which automatically switches to whichever standard is being fed to it. My limited experience is that watching PAL in native PAL is far superior to watching it converted to NTSC, so much so that it's worth looking for this capability for your next TV.
Precisely. I had the same experience the other way round. When I finally got a new TV (from Philips, so a pretty major company) that could handle both formats without conversion, I was shocked (in a positive way) how much better NTSC discs looked without conversion into PAL 60. But isn't it so that practically all new TVs can handle both formats nowadays, at least as far as the AV channels are concerned?

unclehulot
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#112 Post by unclehulot » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:55 pm

Tommaso wrote:
fiddlesticks wrote:FWIW, some televisions can handle both native NTSC and PAL signals. I have one from Sceptre which automatically switches to whichever standard is being fed to it. My limited experience is that watching PAL in native PAL is far superior to watching it converted to NTSC, so much so that it's worth looking for this capability for your next TV.
Precisely. I had the same experience the other way round. When I finally got a new TV (from Philips, so a pretty major company) that could handle both formats without conversion, I was shocked (in a positive way) how much better NTSC discs looked without conversion into PAL 60. But isn't it so that practically all new TVs can handle both formats nowadays, at least as far as the AV channels are concerned?
I'm curious as well whether most or all digital sets these days will accept both NTSC and PAL formats natively. My LCD (Olevia) does display PAL signals, and in conjunction with my Oppo 980 which outputs PAL (I'm in NTSC-land) it's a much better solution that asking the player to convert PAL to NTSC, good as the conversion is on this player. The slightly choppy quality that one must inevitably deal with in just about any conversion is simply not there.

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subliminac
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:21 am
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#113 Post by subliminac » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:30 am

Very few televisions in the US will display both PAL and NTSC signals. The only ones I'm familiar with are the Philips and Olevia brands that you two have mentioned, and also some Sharp models I believe. With projectors however, I think its a different story. They seem to offer more flexibility.

unclehulot
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#114 Post by unclehulot » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:23 pm

subliminac wrote:Very few televisions in the US will display both PAL and NTSC signals. The only ones I'm familiar with are the Philips and Olevia brands that you two have mentioned, and also some Sharp models I believe. With projectors however, I think its a different story. They seem to offer more flexibility.
I'm glad I stumbled on to the Olevia then. It was cheap, and even though it isn't particularly great at black level fidelity, and has a rather clunky interface, has utterly displaced my CRT set, which just sits now. I'll trade the deep blacks for the rock solid picture geometry and PAL display capability. One warning about the Olevias, if you're thinking of picking up over the air HD broadcasts, the QAM tuner is no good....I went from choppy, dropout-ridden reception of HD channels several miles away, to flawless reception when the SAME antenna was hooked up to my Dish Network HD receiver which has a pass-through feature for local broadcasts.

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a.khan
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 3:28 am
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#115 Post by a.khan » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:52 pm

subliminac wrote:Very few televisions in the US will display both PAL and NTSC signals. The only ones I'm familiar with are the Philips and Olevia brands that you two have mentioned...
This is extremely topical for me as I'm presently hunting for a decent LCD TV which can handle both NTSC and PAL signals from my multi-region Philips DVP5965k player (I had brought it with me from Dubai when I moved here.)

Could any one recommend the Philips and Olevia models between 20"-30" that can serve the purpose? Lastly, is there any way I could get 1080p for this screen size? Thanks.

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fiddlesticks
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#116 Post by fiddlesticks » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:41 pm

a.khan wrote:Could any one recommend the Philips and Olevia models between 20"-30" that can serve the purpose? Lastly, is there any way I could get 1080p for this screen size? Thanks.
It's neither of the brands you mention, and at the lowest end of your size scale, but I have the Sceptre X20SV, and it plays both PAL and NTSC native as fed from my Oppo. It won't go to 1080p, but will reach 1080i and 720p. I'm no expert in this stuff by any means, but as a bedroom TV I am very pleased with its performance. And it's darn cheap--MSRP $399.

HKFlix.com now has two Sony Blu-Ray players that they have modified to be multi-region. According to this specs page, this machine will play Blu-Ray discs from regions A and B, as well as SD DVDs from regions 1 and 2 (but, for some reason, not 3-6). This is the first I've heard of a multi-region BR player, although it's not like I keep my ear to the ground on this. If, by chance, you already have one of these players (BDP-S300 and -S500) in its unmodified state, they are evidently willing to modify it for you.

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s.j. bagley
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#117 Post by s.j. bagley » Fri May 23, 2008 8:45 pm

does anyone here have any experience with the oppo dv-983h?
i'm looking to finally pick up an all region player in the next month or so, and that's the one i'm considering so far.
(edited to add that i'm also interested in comparisons of its upscaling capabilities vs. that of the the ps3, which i already have, on a 1080p display.)

johnsusq
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:32 pm
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#118 Post by johnsusq » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:52 pm

s.j. bagley wrote:does anyone here have any experience with the oppo dv-983h?
i'm looking to finally pick up an all region player in the next month or so, and that's the one i'm considering so far.
(edited to add that i'm also interested in comparisons of its upscaling capabilities vs. that of the the ps3, which i already have, on a 1080p display.)
I have a fairly similar inquiry. The other night I was watching the MOC "Les Maitres du Temps" on my Philips 642 region free, outputing to my Samsung 4253 plasma. The player produced horrible jagged lines all over the place and it was almost unwatchable. Later I tried watching it with progressive scan turned off and it looked much better, but still not great.

The experience prompted me to look into a better region-free player with PAL-NTSC conversion. I had pretty much decided on the Oppo 980H (I don't use HDMI so the 981H is out and the 983H is too expensive). However, after further research I found that the 980H does not handle animation very well, so for this particular release (and Gandahar) I might not be better off.

Anywho, I also have a PS3, and I don't have a ton of PAL discs (and most of them are Blu-ray worthy if released on the format), so the only way I could justify purchasing the Oppo is if it is a better player than my PS3 for my NTSC SD discs. Any thoughts?

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Murdoch
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
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#119 Post by Murdoch » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:54 am

Does anyone have any information on this Philips multi-region? I'm thinking about buying it but don't know if I can trust a player based on two reviews. DVP5982 is the product number.

karmajuice
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am

#120 Post by karmajuice » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:43 pm

So I've gotten to the point where I need to start buying region-free DVDs, and after a great deal of research and exploration I have decided that I can do nothing but put myself upon the mercy of those who know a great deal more about this than I do.

What should I get?

And I'll complicate the problem by explaining that this interest in expanding my DVD range coincides with my needing a new laptop. I generally watch DVDs on my laptop anyway (often laying in bed, laptop placed on my chest), which is maybe an odd habit but it's how I do it. I also tend to be rather transient, so a permanent multimedia setup isn't really what I'm looking for now.

So I'm looking for a laptop to watch movies on. I'll be using it for other things, obviously, but my computer needs are pretty modest (any decent laptop should cover them). My problem is figuring out how to get my laptop region-free, especially since I'm also looking at laptops with blu-ray players.

Laptop I'm looking at.

(Are interchangeable DVD drives standard in laptops? My last one had a drive I could remove at will but I don't know if all do; would that be an option here? I can't seem to find anything that confirms this.)

I've also been looking at this region-free player DVD X Player, but I can't find much about it and I'm not sure how it will work on a new laptop, especially one with a blu-ray drive. Has anyone tried it?

DVD X Player.

So I'm trying to reach this ideal balance between region-free, optimal media performance quality, and a good, reliable laptop. Region-free being the difficult factor there, since I know the Vaio will provide the other two no problem.

Can anyone offer me advice, or refer me to someone who could?

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Tutut
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#121 Post by Tutut » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:45 am

karmajuice wrote:I've also been looking atthis region-free player DVD X Player, but I can't find much about it and I'm not sure how it will work on a new laptop, especially one with a blu-ray drive. Has anyone tried it?
I'm not an expert, but you should try AnyDVD from Slysoft.

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subliminac
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#122 Post by subliminac » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:46 am

AnyDVD is clearly the answer, especially in you're interested in region free Bluray. At the moment its the only option, aside from a few pricy modified stand alone players.

karmajuice
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am

#123 Post by karmajuice » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:08 pm

Thanks a bunch. I happened across AnyDVD a day or two ago, and it's definitely what I'm looking for; it's good to hear it recommended here, though. I also found a cheaper laptop that still has everything I want, so I'm going to ask around about that model and get that, paired with AnyDVD. Looks like my problem is solved.

Thanks, guys!

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perkizitore
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#124 Post by perkizitore » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:32 pm

You should seriously look at the possibility of buying an Acer 8920 or 8930.

karmajuice
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am

#125 Post by karmajuice » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:49 pm

After more research I've moved away from the Vaios and started looking at more Acer laptops. I'm seriously considering both of those, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to spend that much. I also recently discovered that I can get a pretty substantial discount on a Dell laptop, so I might get a 17" Dell with blu-ray if it ends up being significantly cheaper. The extra screen size and resolution would be nice, but the difference might not be worth the expense (and I'm not tech-savvy enough to be that picky). And I could import more DVDs with the money I save.

I'll certainly spring for the Acer if things are looking that way, though. Thanks for the suggestion.

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