Breaking Bad

[swo17]

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Something else to consider: I still have a bit of a hard time believing Walt could have poisoned Brock but consider: a) he was at absolute rock bottom and in survival mode at the start of the episode, b) in this state, when he keeps spinning the gun around, he appears to get an idea when the gun points toward a line of plants, c) he has a ready explanation for Gus having employed the Ricin to get Jesse to off him, an explanation which I, as an observer, don't find particularly convincing, but one that I can see Jesse buying, or more importantly, that I can see Walt thinking that it could convince Jesse to come back to his side. Remember also that a big part of Walt's argument to convince Jesse to poison Gus earlier in the season was the child that Gus had killed earlier in the series. He could have rehearsed the line "Who do you know that kills children?"

[matrixschmatrix]

The interesting thing there is that the show is so caught up in in-universe storytelling- asking the viewers to consider information they're given for how well it fits the characters' actions as we've seen them, and what we know of the world- that the line between what the show itself tells you and what the characters make up within the show is getting blurred. Using a plot strand twice- like

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Walt commenting on Gus's proclivity for child murder to turn Jesse to his side

makes sense as something that would happen in-character, but it also makes sense as something the show would use to convince us the viewers that it's possible.

It's certainly not a Brechtian show, but it does push you to think about the story Vince Gilligan and co. are telling you in the same way the characters have to think about the stories they tell one another. A less well-written show might crack under the pressure, but here it just highlights the intelligence of the storytelling.

[mfunk9786]

My father pointed out something interesting:

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In recent history, when someone is suspected of possessing even a minuscule amount of ricin, the authorities are called in on the situation and it is considered in the same league as anthrax etc. If it was indeed brought up to the doctors, we could see Jesse dealing with the police this week for something altogether unexpected considering the other circumstances.

[Cronenfly]

Potentially massive finale spoiler/digital manipulation/deliberate plant.

[mfunk9786]

That cannot be real. It looks way too off special effects-wise, and I don't think the show would ever go for a "Gus casually straightens his tie" gag there.

EDIT: Well, the more I think about it, the more I suppose that can be an off-camera photo of Esposito that's not a still from the show. In that case, well. It bears (heh) a lot of similarities to the pink bear thing with the eyeball floating in the Whites' pool being a pastiche from the second season. Perhaps the season finale will close out with

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Gus' eye floating in there this time around.

[swo17]

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Good call mfunk's dad on the authorities getting involved. A pretty morbid twist too that Walt poisoned the kid (as I suspected) to get Jesse back on his side. Also, I believe this is the first time he's killed someone with a gun, and it almost seemed like second nature at this point. The next season should see Walt taking over as boss, with Hank ever getting closer to finding his man. I can't wait.

I kind of guessed where this was all heading from the beginning of the episode (when they remind you of previous scenes you're supposed to have remembered) but it was still incredibly satisfying to see it all play out, even if the final shot of Gus felt a tad out of place here.

[knives]

AVClub does one of their walkthroughs.

Edit: Holy shit that ending with that last shot of Gus, holy shit.

[Andre Jurieu]

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Also, I believe this is the first time he's killed someone with a gun, and it almost seemed like second nature at this point.

I think it seemed like second nature because the show seemed to just treat it like it was a normal occurrence. After that scene I kind of thought they should have made a bigger deal about it. Their indifference to Walt's actions kind of made me prematurely realize what the ending would reveal.

[tarpilot]

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Also, I believe this is the first time he's killed someone with a gun, and it almost seemed like second nature at this point.

Second

[swo17]

Well yeah, if you want to count that.

[LQ]

I came across this picture and thought I'd share. I kind of doubt that the writers planned the similar look, but it is a pretty cool comparison.

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[Professor Wagstaff]

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I guess we'll know for sure if it was intended if season five keeps cutting back to Gus's stray eyeball during a bombsquad investigation every few episodes.

[Tom Hagen]

All caught up. I could go on and on with praise for this series, but for now, I would just like to point out that the final scene of "Crawl Space" was probably the best thing I've seen in TV or the movies in forever.

Vince Gilligan's AV Club interviews have been great. The last is up today, and

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he confirms that Walt did in fact poison Brock:

AVC: When did you decide to have Walter poison Brock, and how did you justify it?
VG: We had that probably a good three or four months before I worked on the last one. That was one of those big ideas that took a bit of selling in the room. We went back and forth on that idea, because it is a big idea, and it is a very dark idea, and it’s ultimately a very pragmatic idea and immoral idea. It’s evil, what Walt does to this poor boy. But there is a very sound, pragmatic idea behind it, which is that Walt needs Jesse squarely back on his side. And if he does not have Jesse on his side, he is indeed a dead man. He’s got no chance at all to beat Gus. But, unfortunately for him, he and Jesse are on the outs; they’re as far apart as they have ever been after their big fistfight. So Walt needs to do something extraordinary to get Jesse back on his side. He needs Jesse to believe that Gus has done this terrible thing, poisoning this child with the ricin. It’s one of those grand gestures. It’s one of those big actions. It’s not anything you can justify on a moral level, but you kind of have to take your hat off to the guy. He’s bold. He’s willing to go the distance to save himself and his family.
And the gamble he’s taking is obviously that Jesse could walk into his house and shoot him in the head because Jesse is so angry when he initially thinks that Walt did this thing. But I think from Walt’s point of view, he’s a dead man no matter what, so might as well be Jesse who shoots him rather than letting Gus have the satisfaction. And the best-case scenario is that Jesse doesn’t pull that trigger and instead hears Walt out and becomes convinced that this crazy terrible thing that happened was not Walt’s work but Gus’. Of course, we find out at the very end that everything Jesse says is correct: that it was Walt and he did it pretty much the way that Jesse said he did it. The only thing Jesse gets wrong is the reason Walt’s doing it. It’s not for revenge against Jesse, it’s for a very cold-blooded, pragmatic reason, which is saving his own life and the life of his family.

I still want to know how he managed to do it, and perhaps we will get that in a flashback opening next season.

[Tom Hagen]

Also

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What lose ends are left for season 5? I can think of all of the following:
* Cancer
* Jesse discovering the truth about Walt's involvement with the death of Jane, poisoning of Brock
* Hank's investigation into Heisenberg
* Mike's return from Mexico
* Law enforcement investigation of season 4's endgame, Gus, etc.
* Ricin investigation
* Cartel payback
* "German multinational whatever"
* APD investigation of various season 3 and 4 murders committed by Jesse and Walt
* The IRS and Ted, Ted's death
That's a lot of ground to cover even if Walt doesn't make a move to take over Gus' empire. But I love the fact that the series could have ended with season 4, even with all of this going on; excellent, excellent control of plot.

[mfunk9786]

I know how he did it, because Gilligan has said so in interviews. When I have more time I'll post it.

[swo17]

Also
What lose ends are left for season 5? I can think of all of the following:

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* Ricin investigation
* Cartel payback

Aren't these more or less resolved?

[Tom Hagen]

Aren't these more or less resolved?

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I think you're right, that ricin may be more or less over for the APD, but it has raised Jesse's profile even more with local law enforcement, and the writers certainly haven't said the last word yet on the kid's status. As for the cartel, there's no way that Gus Fring knocked it entirely out of commission by offing one Don and his immediate circle of henchmen. There were countless witnesses -- the lab guys, the poolside prostitutes, the guys taping Jesse cooking -- who will be reporting back on Mike and Jesse. More importantly, with the Don's death and Gus', there's going to be a huge power vacuum and a lot of pissed off people. "Blowback" may be a more accurate term than "payback."

[mfunk9786]

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he confirms that Walt did in fact poison Brock:

AVC: When did you decide to have Walter poison Brock, and how did you justify it?
VG: We had that probably a good three or four months before I worked on the last one. That was one of those big ideas that took a bit of selling in the room. We went back and forth on that idea, because it is a big idea, and it is a very dark idea, and it’s ultimately a very pragmatic idea and immoral idea. It’s evil, what Walt does to this poor boy. But there is a very sound, pragmatic idea behind it, which is that Walt needs Jesse squarely back on his side. And if he does not have Jesse on his side, he is indeed a dead man. He’s got no chance at all to beat Gus. But, unfortunately for him, he and Jesse are on the outs; they’re as far apart as they have ever been after their big fistfight. So Walt needs to do something extraordinary to get Jesse back on his side. He needs Jesse to believe that Gus has done this terrible thing, poisoning this child with the ricin. It’s one of those grand gestures. It’s one of those big actions. It’s not anything you can justify on a moral level, but you kind of have to take your hat off to the guy. He’s bold. He’s willing to go the distance to save himself and his family.
And the gamble he’s taking is obviously that Jesse could walk into his house and shoot him in the head because Jesse is so angry when he initially thinks that Walt did this thing. But I think from Walt’s point of view, he’s a dead man no matter what, so might as well be Jesse who shoots him rather than letting Gus have the satisfaction. And the best-case scenario is that Jesse doesn’t pull that trigger and instead hears Walt out and becomes convinced that this crazy terrible thing that happened was not Walt’s work but Gus’. Of course, we find out at the very end that everything Jesse says is correct: that it was Walt and he did it pretty much the way that Jesse said he did it. The only thing Jesse gets wrong is the reason Walt’s doing it. It’s not for revenge against Jesse, it’s for a very cold-blooded, pragmatic reason, which is saving his own life and the life of his family.

I still want to know how he managed to do it, and perhaps we will get that in a flashback opening next season.

From another forum, utilizing Gilligan's various interview comments:

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1. Walt sees the gun pointing to the Lily and thus is the genesis of his plan.

2. Walt calls up Saul and offers him $x to pull it off (and convinces Saul that there's no way the kid will die. I don't think Saul would agree to murder a child, or anyone for that matter). Saul either gets the berries from Walt or elsewhere (it's a pretty common plant).

3. Saul already knows where Brock lives (Walt doesn't) and has already made some small-talk with Brock so Brock would remember him as a "good guy" who brings his Mom money. All Saul would have to do is "bump" into the kid on the way home from school, offer to give him a ride home, and offer him some candy (yeah that sounds kind of cliche but I expect Vince et. al to fill in the details).

4. Meanwhile Saul leaves all the messages for Jesse because he needs to get him there to get the ricin cig, which Huell manages to do so defly. Not only did he have to lift the pack out of Jesse's pocket but he also had to replace the pack with another one. Someone posted an animated gif of the scene in last week's thread and you could definitely see Huell put his hand in his pocket after frisking Jesse.

5. So keep in mind that Walt is backed into a corner and pretty much desperate and crazy at this point, so would be willing to take some pretty big risks with this. He knew Jesse was a well-addicted smoker so it wouldn't be long before he went for his cigarettes and noticed the lucky one missing. He also knew that Jesse was close enough to Brock's mom that she would call him and tell him about Brock being sick. He then just had to hope Jesse would be smart enough to put it all together.

[swo17]

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I think you're right, that ricin may be more or less over for the APD, but it has raised Jesse's profile even more with local law enforcement, and the writers certainly haven't said the last word yet on the kid's status. As for the cartel, there's no way that Gus Fring knocked it entirely out of commission by offing one Don and his immediate circle of henchmen. There were countless witnesses -- the lab guys, the poolside prostitutes, the guys taping Jesse cooking -- who will be reporting back on Mike and Jesse. More importantly, with the Don's death and Gus', there's going to be a huge power vacuum and a lot of pissed off people. "Blowback" may be a more accurate term than "payback."

Ah, I can see that now. I think though that several of the loose ends you mention, though unresolved, could conceivably never be addressed again without it feeling like a copout.

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For instance, what Walt did to Jane sort of hangs over his relationship with Jesse, but I don't know that it would be realistic for this to ever come out. With Brock, on the other hand, that took enough people's involvement that it could potentially get back to Jesse. Also, something like the IRS or certain threads of Hank's investigation could come back or not. But I think it's fairly obvious that Season 5 will deal heavily with the power vacuum and with Hank continuing his investigation. Gilligan has also said that Walt's cancer will be addressed in some capacity next season.

[knives]

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I imagine more than the cartel Walt will have to worry about who was protecting Gus from the cartel. The cartel was only concerned with Gus and only had a vendetta with him. Assuming they don't do anything stupid to make them prominent in the business again they should be safe. On the other hand somebody didn't want Gus dead and they'll likely launch their own investigation not to mention the DEA investigating the explosion too if for obviously different reasons.

[Tom Hagen]

Ah, I can see that now. I think though that several of the loose ends you mention, though unresolved, could conceivably never be addressed again without it feeling like a copout.

Absolutely. I am continually amazed with how smart these writers are. Many of the "loose ends" I've examined are more plot points that could be revived, less than they are lingering issues with the story that will necessarily have to be resolved in order to satisfy the audience (or the internal logic of the story). If something comes back, it will be because of karma, cause and effect, and not because it needs to be settled.

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If the Jane thing gets revived, it will be because it is triggered somehow through the reemergence of Donald Margolis, who as far as we know, survived his suicide attempt. I think the show has teased us enough with Walt spilling the beans himself in the "Fly" episode that it won't happen just through some open admission.

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I imagine more than the cartel Walt will have to worry about who was protecting Gus from the cartel. The cartel was only concerned with Gus and only had a vendetta with him. Assuming they don't do anything stupid to make them prominent in the business again they should be safe. On the other hand somebody didn't want Gus dead and they'll likely launch their own investigation not to mention the DEA investigating the explosion too if for obviously different reasons.

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I would agree with you on this, but we should also remember that part of Gus' deal with the Cartel was that he controlled business on the American side of the border. Now that he's gone -- right on the heels of making his Michael Corleone move down in Mexico, and completely upsetting that deal anyway -- there is going to be a huge struggle to service the gap left from all of that blue meth that was getting shipped to those cities with Los Pollos Hermanos joints. As well as a struggle to fill Don Eladio's place in Mexico.

Also, I ran across this today:

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Check out the trademark info on the still from Season 3's Los Pollos Hermanos tv ad; it names the German multinational:



Pretty cool how far ahead of themselves the writers have been.

[knives]

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That's one of those things, like you said, is more something that could be revived than a lingering issue in itself. If Walt and Jesse play their cards right they could avoid getting sucked into that power vacuum. It would be much harder for them to avoid getting sucked into possibly two investigations that they have several clear cut ties to. Either way I suppose though there's a lot of room for story lines over these last 16.

[Tom Hagen]

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You can go at it another way as well: even if Walt and Jesse don't try to take over the Fring operation, and even if they don't become directly involved in some sort of war between the respective residual elements of the Fring operation and the cartel, the guys in Mexico still know who they are and probably still want them to cook down there. That's been part of the tension in the series all along. At various points, Tuco, the cartel, and Fring have all made or attempted to make Walt and Jesse their indentured servants. Unless, of course, the cartel guys picked up enough of Walt's recipe in watching/taping Jesse's Mexican cook and start churning out the blue stuff on their own. At which point Walt's prideful streak will probably boil over.

[knives]

I can see him blowing all over from that. He would probably reach Scarface's end with that. Now I have to wonder if there's any way for the show to end without him dying.

[Tom Hagen]

Walter White's diabolical plot explained.