Breaking Bad

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mfunk9786
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Re: Breaking Bad

#51 Post by mfunk9786 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:06 pm

I've never felt such panic over a work of fiction in my life. This episode raised the bar for what television drama can be, just like the last several episodes. The show has been a nesting doll of quality for the last couple of months.

The Walking Dead can throw millions of zombies at the screen this season, but it wouldn't be a hundredth as terrifying as that last scene of tonight's Breaking Bad episode.

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#52 Post by knives » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:12 pm

Keep quiet for at least two more hours. I'm on the west coast man. I can't see how Cleaner's going to get out of last weeks though I want him to.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Breaking Bad

#53 Post by mfunk9786 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:24 pm

That's some spoiler-free hyperbole, yo

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#54 Post by knives » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:28 pm

I get that, yo, but other bitches might say something yo.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Breaking Bad

#55 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:04 am

An AVClub commenter wrote:Man, thinking back on it, if this had been the final episode of the series I would have been completely and totally satisfied with that ending.

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swo17
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Re: Breaking Bad

#56 Post by swo17 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:51 am

So that was pretty much the greatest thing that has ever happened.

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#57 Post by knives » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:24 am

I wonder what showing that scene from Bridge means they're thinking up. Maybe they're going to try something that nasty.

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Professor Wagstaff
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Re: Breaking Bad

#58 Post by Professor Wagstaff » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:53 pm

With so much to praise about this show, I don't think composer Dave Porter or the sound designers ever get the credit they should.
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Last night being a great example, with that frightening industrial score playing as Skylar approaches the ringing phone, with Walter's psychotic laughing ringing in the background.

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#59 Post by knives » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:10 pm

Hope nobody here owns a rug. I really hope that makes the next Breaking Bad as an ABC comedy video.

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essrog
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Re: Breaking Bad

#60 Post by essrog » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:40 pm

knives wrote:Hope nobody here owns a rug. I really hope that makes the next Breaking Bad as an ABC comedy video.
That was really the only false note of the episode for me. It just felt too broad and convenient. I've seen some people refer to that scene as Fargo-esque, which is close to the register the show usually operates in, but it felt more like something out of Burn After Reading.

A minor quibble, though, considering the final ten minutes of the episode. I'm continually astounded by how Gilligan and his writers can get you to switch your allegiances from week to week.
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When Gus told Walter, "I will kill your infant daughter," that was the first time in a while I had a physical reaction to a line of dialogue. And just last week I was thinking how awesome Gus was for wiping out the cartel.

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#61 Post by knives » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:48 pm

I'm probably just more willing to forgive things that make me laugh (I will admit tonally it didn't fit with the rest of the episode). The way Burr and that other guy played the whole scene had me in stitches.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Breaking Bad

#62 Post by Andre Jurieu » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:04 pm

Professor Wagstaff wrote:With so much to praise about this show, I don't think composer Dave Porter or the sound designers ever get the credit they should.
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Last night being a great example, with that frightening industrial score playing as Skylar approaches the ringing phone, with Walter's psychotic laughing ringing in the background.
Totally agree. I don't think there's another show that's more effective at using that thumping drum and pulsing bass. It's been a huge part of what has created the tension throughout the series.

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#63 Post by knives » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:59 am

Why did ya' stop? That man has superpowers I'm telling you.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Breaking Bad

#64 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:18 am

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He's just as paranoid as everyone else. He just attacked the cartel in a big way, and Jesse just revealed his whole hand to him through his revulsion and fear in his presence. No way was he hopping in that car.
Last edited by mfunk9786 on Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LQ
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Re: Breaking Bad

#65 Post by LQ » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:44 am

knives wrote:Why did ya' stop? That man has superpowers I'm telling you.
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I too called foul about Fring's all-too-prescient decision at the end, but reflecting on the talk he had with Jesse its now clear to me that Gus only became aware that Jesse was on to him during that interlude. He was for all purposes feeling extremely secure in how his plan was panning out beforehand, but that changed with Jesse's "I think...he was poisoned". What I don't understand is why Fring left Jesse once he realized this. He had goons with him, he could've easily "removed" him from the premises. It would've made much more a striking ending if Walt had seen Gus returning to the car pushing an unconscious Jesse in a wheelchair, say.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Breaking Bad

#66 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:49 am

LQ wrote:
knives wrote:Why did ya' stop? That man has superpowers I'm telling you.
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I too called foul about Fring's all-too-prescient decision at the end, but reflecting on the talk he had with Jesse its now clear to me that Gus only became aware that Jesse was on to him during that interlude. He was for all purposes feeling extremely secure in how his plan was panning out beforehand, but that changed with Jesse's "I think...he was poisoned". What I don't understand is why Fring left Jesse once he realized this. He had goons with him, he could've easily "removed" him from the premises. It would've made much more a striking ending if Walt had seen Gus returning to the car pushing an unconscious Jesse in a wheelchair, say.
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But I don't think Gus knows that Jesse has already confronted Walt and that they've figured out that Gus poisoned the kid.

Based on Walt's assumptions, Gus wanted Jesse to think that Walter poisoned the child. That in turn would provoke Jesse to either off Walt himself or finally relent to Gus's plans to terminate Walt from his payroll.

The discussion at the hospital between Gus and Jesse only confirms to Gus that Jesse knows that the child was poisoned. Gus does not yet know yet know who Jesse suspects of poisoning the child. In the first few moments after Jesse reveals his hand, I would assume Gus offers compassion and an extended leave of absence from the lab as a way of telling Jesse that he understands his suffering and is on his side. Perhaps this act of kindness will allow Jesse to assume Gus is not a suspect and then, as Gus hopes, continue onto suspecting Walt as the next likely suspect. As far as Gus knows (unless he's had Jesse followed), Jesse hasn't yet made the leap to accusing Walt of the murder-attempt, so Jesse remains a valuable chess-piece to Gus. Hence I don't think he can off him just yet.

Also, in terms of pure production and processing concerns, Gus can't just knock Jesse out, because he still needs him to cook. Unless, his plan is for Jesse to basically cook at gun-point, but that does not seem like an ideal long-term circumstance for production.

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#67 Post by knives » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:57 am

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Also I doubt Fring was the one that poisoned the kid. It seems more like a long string of coincidences. Stupid kid probably stole the cigarette. That said Jesse probably did make him more paranoid.

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Re: Breaking Bad

#68 Post by LQ » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:10 pm

Andre Jurieu wrote:
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But I don't think Gus knows that Jesse has already confronted Walt and that they've figured out that Gus poisoned the kid.

Based on Walt's assumptions, Gus wanted Jesse to think that Walter poisoned the child. That in turn would provoke Jesse to either off Walt himself or finally relent to Gus's plans to terminate Walt from his payroll.

The discussion at the hospital between Gus and Jesse only confirms to Gus that Jesse knows that the child was poisoned. Gus does not yet know yet know who Jesse suspects of poisoning the child. In the first few moments after Jesse reveals his hand, I would assume Gus offers compassion and an extended leave of absence from the lab as a way of telling Jesse that he understands his suffering and is on his side. Perhaps this act of kindness will allow Jesse to assume Gus is not a suspect and then, as Gus hopes, continue onto suspecting Walt as the next likely suspect. As far as Gus knows (unless he's had Jesse followed), Jesse hasn't yet made the leap to accusing Walt of the murder-attempt, so Jesse remains a valuable chess-piece to Gus. Hence I don't think he can off him just yet.

Also, in terms of pure production and processing concerns, Gus can't just knock Jesse out, because he still needs him to cook. Unless, his plan is for Jesse to basically cook at gun-point, but that does not seem like an ideal long-term circumstance for production.
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Knowing how reactionary Jesse is, especially in a situation involving children, I am assuming that Gus realized Jesse would've already gone to confront Walt by that point. If I may slip into Gus' mind for a sec here (not a pleasant place to be), the minute that Jesse would've heard "poison" from the doctors and/or missed the cigarette, he would've gone immediately to Walt with the intention to kill him. I assume that Gus assumed it wouldn't be a talky affair. But with no news of Walt's death and Jesse pointedly parsing out "I think...he was poisoned", I took Gus' "softening" and offer of a week off to mean that he knows Jesse knows, and uh, business will be concluded within the next week.
But this is of course all wild conjecture, just based on gut reaction and my reading of a terribly intricate and ambiguous episode. I still even slightly hold onto the theory that no one purposely poisoned the boy, and somehow the kid sneaked the cigarette out of Jesse's pack as kids are wont to experiment. Although, I can't quite remember the timeline that Jesse stated for seeing the cigarette and how that matches up to when he was in the vicinity of the boy.

You're right, offing Jesse would be bad for business, but the ending left us with Gus realizing that business is going to be bumpy in the near future any way you slice it.
EDIT- Just read knives' post... I suspect that too. Somewhat. It seems at least as viable or slightly more so than Gus being the perpetrator.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Breaking Bad

#69 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:08 pm

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I assumed all along that Gus would have had the cigarette lifted from Jesse the moment he put it in his coat and replaced it with another. It's pretty obvious that Jesse's house is being watched.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Breaking Bad

#70 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:31 pm

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Well, based on the fact that I would be utterly paranoid in this situation and also because I assume the worst about Gus, I would also suspect that Jesse's house is being watched. However, while the show has made it obvious that Gus routinely has a tail on Walt, they don't always seem to be doing the same for Jesse - though I think Mike basically served that purpose. Either way, we don't explicitly know that Gus has Jesse's place under surveillance, so I'm going to assume Gilligan & Co. don't want us to presume it when perceiving this latest series of events.

I also wondered if the kid just grabbed the cigarette from Jesse's jacket and accidentally poisoned himself (oddly, that seemed like the most logical sequence of events). However, if that's the case then the theory that Gus knows Jesse and Walt are in the process of trying to kill him is actually kind of weakened, because Gus didn't actually take any recent actions against either (or at least, any actions of consequence, since so far he's just delivered a threat to Walt). If the kid just decided to take up smoking with Jesse's lucky cigarette, then Gus basically just has the issues with production - Walt is gone, DEA sniffing around, Jesse isn't showing up for work. If the kid accidentally poisoned himself, Gus hasn't taken any action against Jesse and therefore doesn't need to become suspicious of his absence at work. It's simply an employee going through a family crisis at the hospital, which makes production impossible. In this case, since he has no real motivation to suspect Jesse of conspiracy, Gus's paranoia would really only be fueled by the threats of retaliation from the cartel or Walt.

Naturally, since I think of the worst scenarios, I actually also considered that Walt might have poisoned the kid, but this would be even more difficult to pull off, as the logistics aren't great and it's way too wild a plan for Walt (though, while it's not the same thing, Walt did allow Jane to choke to death, so there's always that to consider....).

Given that the cartel is still in shambles and would have difficulty organizing (I would assume the power-vacuum in Mexico would result in a lot of infighting first before anyone goes directly after Gus), I'm still thinking that Gus only suspects that Walt is a threat.

The one thing that still doesn't make sense to me is that Gus is (other than his initial meeting with the cartel) generally a man who keeps his emotional reactions in check and always has an eye on what's good for business. Gus's actions in recent episodes with Jesse and Walt make no sense in terms of his character. It just seems weird that he would plan to poison a child to motivate Jesse to kill Walt. Again, like Walter, the plan seems way too ill-conceived for Gus to attempt. It also really doesn't solve his issues with the DEA snooping around.

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swo17
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Re: Breaking Bad

#71 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:48 pm

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I just assumed (actually, I guessed it before Jesse had even checked his cigarettes) that the kid had stumbled upon the poison by accident. It seems a bit of a stretch that Gus would even know about the cigarette or any specific details about Walt and Jesse's original plan to kill him. However, Gus is incredibly big on surveillance, and it must have dawned on him upon approaching the car that he had let his guard down in parking there, even if only for twenty minutes or so. I think it just goes to show that he's as paranoid at this point as Walt is.

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essrog
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Re: Breaking Bad

#72 Post by essrog » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:59 pm

Andre Jurieu wrote:
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The one thing that still doesn't make sense to me is that Gus is (other than his initial meeting with the cartel) generally a man who keeps his emotional reactions in check and always has an eye on what's good for business. Gus's actions in recent episodes with Jesse and Walt make no sense in terms of his character. It just seems weird that he would plan to poison a child to motivate Jesse to kill Walt. Again, like Walter, the plan seems way too ill-conceived for Gus to attempt. It also really doesn't solve his issues with the DEA snooping around.
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The more I think I about it, the more I think I'll be disappointed if Brock DIDN"T poison himself with Jesse's Ricinette. The Gus-poisons-Jesse's-girlfriend's-son-to-make-him-think-Walter-did-it-and-will-kill-him idea makes Gavin Elster's murder plot in Vertigo look straightforward by comparison. It would be perfect if Gus' evil genius were feared so much that things he had nothing to do with are now being attributed to him -- which will lead to his downfall now that Walt and Jesse are on the same team again.

Even if Brock did poison himself, I can still buy Gus' apprehension regarding the car at the end -- I think he could read Jesse's accusatory tone, and start to wonder about how this whole visit to the hospital could be a setup. Since Jesse has refused to sign off on Walt's murder, Gus has to have considered the possibility they could get back in cahoots. He might have no idea what brought them there, but I can see him figuring out enough to be suspicious.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Breaking Bad

#73 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:26 pm

essrog wrote:
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Even if Brock did poison himself, I can still buy Gus' apprehension regarding the car at the end -- I think he could read Jesse's accusatory tone, and start to wonder about how this whole visit to the hospital could be a setup. Since Jesse has refused to sign off on Walt's murder, Gus has to have considered the possibility they could get back in cahoots. He might have no idea what brought them there, but I can see him figuring out enough to be suspicious.
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Yeah, I could definitely see it from that perspective. I can certainly understand Gus's general paranoia and apprehension at this stage of his ascension to crime-lord. I'm just thinking he's already suspicious of what Walt is planning, but I really felt (based on the way they shot the scene) that he only pieced things together as he walked up to the solitary car, so I don't think Jesse was in any serious danger during their discussion. While, I got the sense he was uneasy during his conversation with Jesse at the hospital, I still got the sense that Gus thought himself to be in control of the situation and still capable of manipulating Jesse. He really only seemed to become anxious (as much as he is capable of showing anxiety) when he approached the car.

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knives
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Re: Breaking Bad

#74 Post by knives » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:33 pm

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An interview that is making the rounds on the Internet has Esposito saying when they filmed that scene he was acting as if the entire walk all Fring is thinking is "I think he was poisoned". That at least helps out with that piece to the puzzle.

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Re: Breaking Bad

#75 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:40 pm

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Also remember that Gus just barely wiped out the Mexican cartel by poisoning them, which Jesse was there to witness. I don't think Gus has to have known anything about the Ricin to clue in that when Jesse said that, he was hinting that he suspected Gus, and once that was out of the bag, Gus had every reason to be suspicious of having been brought there.

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