Mad Men

[domino harvey]

I gave up on this show a long time ago but I thought it was funny how 75% of the status updates on my Facebook friends feed were variations of the words "Megan" and "WTF"

[Murdoch]

SpoilerShow

There's nothing wrong on the Megan side of the relationship, but Don is not going to last. Don marrying his secretary has disaster written all over it, and while I hope that this doesn't turn into another one of Draper's past relationships where he gets bored, this being Mad Men he's either going to become bored or Megan will find out about his past and bad things will ensue. The way Don completely left Faye in the dark was terrible with his "oh yeah, her" reaction to Megan telling him he has to tell her.

The bit of dialog between Peggy and Joan was great though

[Andre Jurieu]

SpoilerShow

There's nothing wrong on the Megan side of the relationship, but Don is not going to last. Don marrying his secretary has disaster written all over it, and while I hope that this doesn't turn into another one of Draper's past relationships where he gets bored, this being Mad Men he's either going to become bored or Megan will find out about his past and bad things will ensue. The way Don completely left Faye in the dark was terrible with his "oh yeah, her" reaction to Megan telling him he has to tell her.

The bit of dialog between Peggy and Joan was great though

SpoilerShow

Totally agree on the scene between Peggy and Joan. It's nice to see them bond, rather than the usual dynamic of Joan teaching Peggy about shrewdly navigating around obstacles involving inequitable gender roles in the office. Speaking of Joan, I was waiting for that reveal of her seemingly destined decision. I wonder if the baby will immediately have silver hair.

I share the same worry about Don's decision. I guess the question is whether or not he will ever have that conversation with Megan about his past or will he repeat the same mistakes he made with Betty. Seems like such a shame with Faye, considering she actually did accept him for who he actually was. I guess I just assumed that Megan would have a much more mature response to the Dick Whitman-secret than Betty did, though if he keeps it under wraps too long, it will probably wind up being a repeated mistake.

I actually thought Don was just avoiding/delaying the conversation with Faye rather than dismissing her entirely (which I think is somewhat understandable, though still insensitive, considering the circumstances). I guess I thought that it's really his decision that was truly the terrible in terms of how he treated Faye, rather than when he chose to have that conversation, which was going to be awful for Faye, even if he put it off a week instead of a couple of hours.

[chaddoli]

SpoilerShow

I have to say I highly doubt Don will ever tell Megan about his past. To me, her ignorance about it seemed to be the primary reason for him choosing her. He tells her he can be "himself" with her, and she tells him she "knows him." The "him" in both statements is Don Draper, not Dick Whitman. I think what scared Don away from Faye is that she knew the real him, and instead of moving forward and coming clean, he is regressing. Megan is clearly a more loving person than Betty, but she's still in the trophy-wife model. She's not an intellectual equal like Faye was. It's a shame, because Don was starting to show some maturity.

Also, I don't think Peggy should worry about Megan becoming a copywriter. I think she'll be sent straight to the kitchen after the nuptials. I really wanted to see Sally's reaction to all this before it ended, but oh well.

[Andre Jurieu]

SpoilerShow

I have to say I highly doubt Don will ever tell Megan about his past. To me, her ignorance about it seemed to be the primary reason for him choosing her. He tells her he can be "himself" with her, and she tells him she "knows him." The "him" in both statements is Don Draper, not Dick Whitman. I think what scared Don away from Faye is that she knew the real him, and instead of moving forward and coming clean, he is regressing. Megan is clearly a more loving person than Betty, but she's still in the trophy-wife model. She's not an intellectual equal like Faye was. It's a shame, because Don was starting to show some maturity.

Also, I don't think Peggy should worry about Megan becoming a copywriter. I think she'll be sent straight to the kitchen after the nuptials. I really wanted to see Sally's reaction to all this before it ended, but oh well.

SpoilerShow

I also have my doubts that Don will reveal that information to Megan. However, I think part of the reason he chooses Megan over Faye is because he's kind of moving too far forward and misguidedly skipping steps. I think he enjoys the idea that Megan already views him as the man that Don eventually wants to become, while Faye liked him for what he was at this point in his life and accepted his past. I have to think sticking with Faye would have been the smarter thing to do for Don, but I can understand the appeal of being with someone who makes you look forward to your future and who you believe could be a catalyst to helping you become some ideal version of yourself. I get the feeling, having figured out a way to control his drinking (even if it's a precarious situation), Don is no longer worried about "who is Don Draper", but instead looking forward to what Don Draper could be during this era of tremendous transition.

As for Megan's role in the work place, while she certainly does seem more surface than substance at this point (great lines about her teeth preventing her from being an actress), she has expressed an interest in the creative process and advertising (even if that was just a way to get into a relationship with Don). Her interest could very well be genuine, and other than her inability to recognize poor Kennedy impersonations (so many Quimby lines come to mind), she does seem fairly competent at her duties. Megan certainly doesn't have the same creative spark as Peggy, or the same amount of confidence as Faye, but who knows what she's actually capable of.

I'm actually kind of worried about Peggy, considering Don's unpredictable nature and her own tendency to over-estimate her worth to the company (which is understandable with any young star in the office). It certainly is a great thing that Peggy brought in a new account - while somehow by-passing Ken's inept attempts at creative input - but she also immediately exaggerates her contribution to the company, stating that she's saved them from certain financial ruin. In reality, that account just breaks a string of poor performance, but it hardly saves the company considering its minor size. Even though I cheer for Peggy way more than Pete, I always worry she's going to over-step her boundaries one day, and with Don now sheltering Megan, I doubt he will be as likely to allow Peggy as much flexibility as before. Actually, I'm kind of looking forward to the notion of Peggy interacting daily with Megan, since it's sure to have an amazing amount of tension and it's bound to be an interesting contrast with how Peggy dismissed Allison's disintegration.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

For those who've followed season four, this is a superb discussion of Betty this season. Outside of the This Recording recaps, this is easily the best writing on the season I've encountered.

[Nothing]

So... Less Betty + less Dick Whitman + Draper's decline = best season so far? Mad Men Season 4 = Best Film of 2010? Mad Mel in Mad Men 5? = amaze?

...the overwhelming misogyny made this series such a chore for me to slog through....

Once again, domino confuses depictions of misogyny with misogyny... One begins to wonder whether he/she is a closet misogynist...

[Mr Sausage]

Wonder it in silence. Casually accusing members of this site of being misogynists is trolling and unacceptable. Keep it up and your tenure here won't be for much longer.

[Nothing]

Ah come on, it was a joke.

Sausauge = Robert Downey Jr.?

[mfunk9786]

Joke? Though I do agree with the first part of your statement, that Domino is confusing a depiction of misogyny with actual misogyny, the rest of the post doesn't read like a joke. Whether it is one or not, it doesn't make any sense to begin with.

[domino harvey]

The depiction of misogyny is too close to actual misogyny to my eyes. I "get" what the producers of the show think they're doing, as I said in my original post, but I don't think it has the effect they claim. Please don't confuse my rejection of the show's methodology with me "not getting it"

[Andre Jurieu]

The depiction of misogyny is too close to actual misogyny to my eyes. I "get" what the producers of the show think they're doing, as I said in my original post, but I don't think it has the effect they claim. Please don't confuse my rejection of the show's methodology with me "not getting it"

But isn't that just an accurate depiction of misogyny? I do think the show is cautious with their methods so that they do not revel or endorse the actions of their characters.

I also think we should avoid faulting the creators if their depiction leads to some douche-bags within the audience thinking that the accuracy of the depiction allows them to embrace the behaviour being exhibited by the characters. I'll fall back on my overused "band vs fans" analogy.

[mfunk9786]

It's like complaining that there is too much blood in a hospital drama.

[Andre Jurieu]

It's like complaining that there is too much blood in a hospital drama.

Humor aside, I think it would be like saying that the creators of Breaking Bad are endorsing the concept of fueling the drug-trade because their characters are engaging in that behaviour and are quite often rewarded for their efforts (conflict and collateral damage aside, they are compensated very well for their illegal work, even if it's only for the short-term). I would actually argue that Breaking Bad's creative team often does use techniques that make drug-making/dealing look appealing, considering some of the more kinetic sequences exhibiting illegal behavior that feature uptempo editing and catchy songs. Yet, I wouldn't necessarily accuse them of endorsing the act of drug-manufacturing (though they seem to be using the drug-industry to critique many other aspects of American society), since they spend so much time dealing with the consequences, costs, and fall-out of the illegal activities.

I think, in some sense, the past two seasons of Mad Men have also spent significant time and effort of displaying the toll that misogynist behavior ultimately extracts from its characters (they even did this in the 1st season with Roger's medical issues).

[swo17]

Depictions of misogyny are not inherently exempt from being misogynist simply because they are distanced from it and claim to point a mirror at society or whatever. I'm sure that's what domino's getting at. I can't personally comment on how Mad Men fares in this respect, as I gave up on the show early on for other reasons.

[Andre Jurieu]

Depictions of misogyny are not inherently exempt from being misogynist simply because they are distanced from it and claim to point a mirror at society or whatever. I'm sure that's what domino's getting at. I can't personally comment on how Mad Men fares in this respect, as I gave up on the show early on for other reasons.

I would agree that they aren't inherently exempt, but it's also a label that's often applied without much substantiation beyond the "it feels like misogyny and it makes me uncomfortable, therefore all the people associated to this creation are misogynists" (though, I'm not saying that's what's being stated in this discussion). In the case of Mad Men, I believe the depiction is balanced by an examination of the consequences and I see no attempt to celebrate the behaviour beyond the results within the narrative that would seem apt within the era.

I would also like to stress that many of the high points within the show have been where women exert their influence and authority within a society that seeks to constrict them considerably. It also appears as though the show's creative team spends a significant amount of time and effort developing their female characters and actively seeks to have the audience identify with their circumstances and pitches them as sympathetic. We even had significant chunks of this past season devoted to the trials of an adolescent girl suffering through her parents divorce, while the plight of her young brother was largely ignored.

[tartarlamb]

I watch Mad Men, but I can definitely see why the misogyny depicted would dismay someone enough to drive them away from the show. Everyone has their own threshold for these things, and I don't think it's any use arguing about it, but with depicted misogyny there's always the question of how much the author or the text is colluding with the misogyny, how much its being exploited for entertainment value or otherwise, and a whole nest of sensitive surrounding issues. I know a few women that won't watch the show because it "hits too close to home," which is a truly scary thought.

[Doctor Sunshine]

It seems like it's being implied Mad Men is doing something wrong but I think we'd benefit from a concrete example, if this is the case. Surely whitewashing the era's sexism would be less palatable. To my eyes, they're handling it as deftly as they are contemporary racism, homophobia, etc.

[jbeall]

I'm speaking as a fan of the show, but I don't find it to be misogynist. In particular, the character of Joan is quite compelling, and I think most viewers were pretty disappointed on her behalf (in season 2?) when, after working with Harry in the tv division for several weeks, she was sent back to her secretarial position. Christina Hendricks plays the silent unhappiness, sense of injustice, and stoic acceptance perfectly. And she's not the only woman who runs up against crappy social norms; I'm thinking here of her lesbian former roommate. And Joan becomes unsympathetic there precisely to the degree that she cold-bloodedly puts her in her place.

Now, I did find some of the commercials that ran during Mad Men to be pretty misogynist and offensive. This one was particularly irritating, and I doubt I'll ever buy Clorox again.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

NYRB dresses down Mad Men.

[Zumpano]

As K. Longworth pointed out on Twitter, it's hard to take this guy seriously with comments such as:

I found myself wishing that the creators of Glee had gotten a stab at this material.

[Robert de la Cheyniest]

Not to mention

The writing is extremely weak, the plotting haphazard and often preposterous, the characterizations shallow and sometimes incoherent; its attitude toward the past is glib and its self-positioning in the present is unattractively smug; the acting is, almost without exception, bland and sometimes amateurish.

I mean, say what you will about Mad Men because it has flaws but to say the acting is "almost with exception, bland and sometimes amateurish" like a statement of fact is...well, has he seen Jon Hamm on this show? John Slattery? Christina Hendricks? Elizabeth Moss? Vincent Kartheiser? Bryan Batt? Seriously guy?

[Andre Jurieu]

I read the whole thing last week, but I kind of lost my enthusiasm about the piece after he decided to rattle off a bunch of other examples of great shows that he does enjoy as if they were a statement of TV-critic qualifications. That's just kind of irritating, even if I do enjoy the same shows. Mad Men certainly has some flaws and the piece does touch upon some of the inherent contradictions that the show creates (though I do believe these are often quite intentional), but some of the points being made could be applied to the same shows that he praises (especially The Sopranos, BSG, and The Wire).

[LQ]

Finally, some concrete information about the future of the show: Mad Man has been renewed for at least two more seasons with season 5 set to start in March of 2012.

[Murdoch]

Finally, some concrete information about the future of the show: Mad Man has been renewed for at least two more seasons with season 5 set to start in March of 2012.

Damn, a whole year before another season.