Mad Men

[Black Hat]

Not exactly out of step with the characters.

It's not so much that I felt it was out of step with the characters, the Joan hug for example, was perfect. Rather, I felt to place these characters in that situation for an entire episode felt out of step with the show.

[bdlover]

...disrupting an awards ceremony...

The episode was painstakingly historically accurate, at least as far as the awards ceremony goes.

Okay, so the bald facts of the event are accurate - this is certainly interesting and reasonably impressive. Yet nowhere in the NYT article is there any indication that the attendees expressed sympathy, shock or horror at what had taken place - beyond the exclamation of one vocal activist.

we have no idea if the characteristics of the population within the poll accurately reflect the demographics or opinions of the people and industry being examined by the show.

It took federal court orders to force the Nixon administration to desegregate schools in the early 1970s, an administration that SCDP have actively campaigned for.

It's not like after arriving to work the next morning upon hearing the news every white guy in the office would be high-fiving each other

And yet for the characters to react in much the same way as they reacted to the assassination of a president is equally unconvincing. Whilst one might expect the characters to respond to the news with some fascination, perhaps even some concern at the impact it might have on their campaigns, their meeting schedules, etc, I see no evidence for anything other than indifference in an emotional sense. Since this would offend the show's core audience they played it differently, that's it.

[Matt]

Well, finally something happens.

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I expect Pete will be cut out as a partner in the new agency due to him losing Vicks and Don dropping Jaguar. That slip on the stairs seemed very prophetic.

[Black Hat]

Finally an excellent episode that hit all the right notes that for the first in a while has me eagerly anticipating what's going to happen.

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I expect Pete will be cut out as a partner in the new agency due to him losing Vicks and Don dropping Jaguar. That slip on the stairs seemed very prophetic.

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That would surprise me. Everything definitely went wrong for Pete in this episode but he's proven to be even more valuable than Don to SCDP's growth. I took his failure as more of a no matter how bad Pete wants to be like Don, he will never be and on top of all that when it comes down to it Don can do things Pete can't, like for example doubling the size of the company.

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I'm very interested in where Don & Joan goes from here as that's always been the show's healthiest relationship as it's been based on mutual respect. Joan's respect is important to Don and is why he's never made a move on her, now that he's lost it, how will he try to win it back? Or will he forget about all that now and give in to his carnal impulses to seduce her? I'm certainly hoping that this conflict will be resolved and won't be dismissed in a Joan just got over it, everything's back to normal kind of way.

[Andre Jurieu]

Yet nowhere in the NYT article is there any indication that the attendees expressed sympathy, shock or horror at what had taken place - beyond the exclamation of one vocal activist.

Which means we can't say the real people in attendance reacted in one fashion or another. In that case, on a fictional show, I'll use their past behavior as a blueprint of how to gauge their reactions. I'm not really too sure why we should default our expectations to the results of a favorability poll from two years earlier which appeared to use a broader population.

It took federal court orders to force the Nixon administration to desegregate schools in the early 1970s, an administration that SCDP have actively campaigned for.

The political position a business takes is much different to how the individuals within that agency would react to the news on a personal level. I have a feeling Cooper's personal political position mirrors the position his business takes, but other than Sterling appearing in black-face (which I think was more about the antiquated ideas his family still clings onto - cause I'm certain Roger would surely change opinions once Pam Grier becomes more prominent), I'm not sure I can really state conclusively what any other character's personal political stance is on anything (other than maybe Kinsey). I'm sure the agency provides work and funding to whatever campaign they feels best suits their business interests. However, that doesn't really convey how each character votes in elections or their personal stance on specific issues.

I've worked at a business that supports politicians that I would never vote for. I've worked for the federal government, working for administrations I support and also for administrations that I despise. If they actively started trying to alter my political views, I would quit. There are co-workers I now work with that have voiced their apprehensions about sensitive political topics such as gay-marriage, and I've tried to engage in a little civil discourse with them, but ultimately we just both have to accept that we have to work together while not perceiving the world the exact same way. Maybe I read the situation wrong, but it didn't seem that we were one word away from punching each other in the face over the topic. At no time have I ever been asked by my employer to change my positions or vote in a specific way to better serve the companies interests.

And yet for the characters to react in much the same way as they reacted to the assassination of a president is equally unconvincing. Whilst one might expect the characters to respond to the news with some fascination, perhaps even some concern at the impact it might have on their campaigns, their meeting schedules, etc, I see no evidence for anything other than indifference in an emotional sense. Since this would offend the show's core audience they played it differently, that's it.

The characters' reactions to the Kennedy assassination and the news regarding MLK were vastly different. As far as I could see, most of the characters were initially startled by the news of MLK's death and then began to act in their own best interests. Abe thought this event was going to jump-start his writing career, Harry worried about ratings, Pete attempted to manipulate the situation to reconcile his marriage, Peggy tried to take advantage of the fear permeating the city and buy a condo, Don worried about the safety of his mistress and ignored his kids until he couldn't anymore. Very few of them even approached a genuine sadness about the death, other than Peggy's secretary. In fact, most of them are outright selfish and self-involved. I'm not even sure which members of the audience are saying that the show was so incredibly sympathetic to the news of the death. Any reasonable viewer seems to think that it was a muted reaction from most of the characters.

[Professor Wagstaff]

Have their been any articles written so far this season that discuss the idea of doubles in relation to the show? I noticed it to be a prevalent theme during the first episode of the season with characters like Don, Betty, and Roger confronting people who seemed to reflect elements of their own personality. You had 1) the soldier in Hawaii who accidentally swapped lighters with Don and mused on how he would one day be the middle aged man in the bar giving advice to another GI, 2) Betty's kitchen table discussion with Sally's friend who spurned Betty's advice with the objections that Betty too once ran away to the city and she didn't want to perpetuate the cycle of being married in the suburbs, and 3) Roger lamenting the death of his mother ("It's my funeral!"). Merging with CGC expands on that, with little details like the lobby meeting between Don, Roger, Ted, and Cutler shot like each pair is a reflection of the other (last week Peggy also called Cutler "Roger with bad breath"). Perhaps most promising for this pattern is Peggy now working for Ted and Don, where both men have strong, contrasting mentor roles in her life, but with opposite approaches that seem to be tugging at how she wants to be as an ad director. Even the poster for this season is Don passing a reflection of himself in the street.

There are tons more, and any ideas to what it might mean seems worth exploring.

[bdlover]

Finally an excellent episode that hit all the right notes

Yeah, a much better episode this week, finally the season has begun.

[warren oates]

Unless you're thinking of last night's episode as a "return to form," in which case you're watching it wrong.

[mfunk9786]

You all know how I feel, I think the season's been as good as the show's ever been, and last night was no exception. All the character [re]development that the first few episodes contained were building to this. It had a very last season of The Sopranos feel - there is a whole lot of doom and gloom hanging over this universe all of a sudden, even in the face of developments that seem exciting.

[Ashirg]

With Sopranos some people say "No one got killed = bad episode!!!" What's the equivalent in Mad Men?

[mfunk9786]

No major plot developments and characters are doing things I can't easily psychoanalyze = bad episode!!!

[Matt]

No major plot developments and characters are doing things I can't easily psychoanalyze = bad episode!!!

[bdlover]

Another good episode, possibly, although I'm undecided on Don's foray into D/s. It was fun to see a seedier side of Draper (seems he's been watching Sucker Punch!), but if Don really leans that way would we not have seen some evidence in the previous five seasons? Nicely mirrored the rivalry with Ted of course, the latter being amusing if a little obvious.

[jorencain]

Another good episode, possibly, although I'm undecided on Don's foray into D/s. It was fun to see a seedier side of Draper (seems he's been watching Sucker Punch!), but if Don really leans that way would we not have seen some evidence in the previous five seasons? Nicely mirrored the rivalry with Ted of course, the latter being amusing if a little obvious.

Well, there was this in season 4.

(This is kind of NSFW)

[Roger Ryan]

I'm pretty sure this was not about sex. Draper has become unnerved by overhearing Sylvia's emotional outburst with her husband and wants to know how far she will allow him to control her. Like a spoiled child, Draper is pushing the boundaries to find the point where he will no longer be indulged.

A lot a good things in this episode, but the best was...

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The pitch black comic juxtaposition of Friend and Lover's "Reach Out Of The Darkness" ("I think it's so groovy now that people are finally getting together") playing over Don and Megan in their bedroom as footage of Robert Kennedy's assassination plays on the TV.

[Andre Jurieu]

... but if Don really leans that way would we not have seen some evidence in the previous five seasons?

... like the first sex-scenes that Don has been involved with in each of the past couple of seasons.

[mfunk9786]

Me, watching tonight's episode.

EDIT:

[warren oates]

The Lynch reference couldn't be more appropriate. There have been Lynchian moments of weirdness before in the series (like the episode that begins with Betty in a doctor's waiting room, floating ominously on the exam table like one of the characters in Dune. But this episode has so many more. Like the first scene with Ken, and his crazy bullying Detroit masters, which could be straight out of Blue Velvet. Or the numerous jarring and uncanny timeshifts that fragment Don's sense of reality (very Lost Highway or Twin Peaks). And Ken's inspired

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meth-fueled tap dancing

scene could be in almost any of Lynch's films.

[Black Hat]

I've been hard on Mad Men this year but last night's episode I can see going down as the show's most memorable episode for me. The consistent subtle influence of 60's New Wave Cinema on the show went into overdrive and I loved every second of it, even the flashback scenes which until last night I've never liked.

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So many great moments, all of Sally's scenes, everyone's reaction to the drug, Stan & Peggy, the slow introduction & subtlety of who Cutler is, Ken tap dancing, the use of the Sergio Mendes song, Wendy, oh Wendy!!! The long no dialogue take of Sylvia & Don going down in the elevator. A boiler plate of manic, polarizing emotions culminating with Don passing out which was as a stand in for us. A stand in for how life is sometimes a faceplant. A faceplant in front of the people we least want to see us weak and desperate.

Great, great stuff.

[mfunk9786]

Last season's probably still a little bit better, but this is definitely the second best season of the show so far and gaining ground fast. I still don't know that last night's episode topped The Suitcase, but it's definitely up there.

[mfunk9786]

Final season of Mad Men to be split into two 7-episode halves, to air in 2014 and 2015

Oh, AMC.

[Matt]

Oh, for fuck's sake. I don't think this show is going to have quite as suspenseful a buildup to the finale as Breaking Bad.

[Black Hat]

Unbelievable. You would think the lesson AMC would of learned was to give a great tv show more episodes not repeat the same mistake. That said I think Breaking Bad was still very much growing as a show where as Mad Men has been a bit stagnant.

[swo17]

Breaking Bad saw such a ratings boost after doing this same thing that I'm betting you'll see a lot more of this crap until the audience bumps eventually start to MadMen out.

[Black Hat]

My point exactly. I don't think for one second that the split season has anything to do with the ratings boost of Breaking Bad and everything to do with the kind of show it is but unfortunately the suits disagree.