St. Elsewhere

Discuss TV shows old and new.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Tawfik
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 7:08 am

St. Elsewhere

#1 Post by Tawfik » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:12 am

I've just restarted to watch the entire show with my girlfriend who had absolutely no clue about it (it's completely unknown here in Europe) as I have the "chance" of owning the first season on dvd and the rest of the series on VHS (tv-ripped, of course not the best quality and many episode are badly censored).

It's definitly my favourite show and I consider it one of the best thing to ever air on tv. Of course not everything about it is perfect but the whole serie is so well written, be it for each episode individually or the complete show (there's still references to the first season in the last one). It was groundbreaking on so many level I am still amazed of its power and authenticity today. Tom Fontana worked as story editor and you can see that he learned quite a few things about tv drama there, I wish there was more interviews of him speaking about his work on St. Elsewhere (If you're a fan of Oz you can see some very tiny references to St.Elsewhere, like some character names etc.).

Too many good things in the show to actually list them, but the fact that it is completely unavailable on DVD is no less than criminal. At some point the entire series was available on VOD, although on their censored version (no effort whatsoever to do the show some justice), I don't know if that's still the case but I wish they could release a DVD box set of the show like they did for Hill Street Blues.

Anyone else had the chance to watch it too?

Noiradelic
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:45 am

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#2 Post by Noiradelic » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:00 am

I started watching the show when it first aired and it felt a lot like the Hill Street Blues formula transferred to a hospital series. That being said, Hill Street Blues was so innovative at the time that even imitating its formula with any success meant good writing and a certain amount of individuality.

I should disclose that I've only seen a handful of episodes since it was regularly rerun in the eighties. I also haven't seen every episode in order -- wouldn't mind doing that if the opportunity came along.

Neat that a European would take so much interest in an eighties U.S. show that hasn't gotten much attention in the internet era. Were you old enough to catch it when it first aired in your country?

Tawfik
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 7:08 am

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#3 Post by Tawfik » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:41 am

I started watching the show when it first aired and it felt a lot like the Hill Street Blues formula transferred to a hospital series. That being said, Hill Street Blues was so innovative at the time that even imitating its formula with any success meant good writing and a certain amount of individuality.
I should disclose that I've only seen a handful of episodes since it was regularly rerun in the eighties. I also haven't seen every episode in order -- wouldn't mind doing that if the opportunity came along.
Yes it shares quite a few things with Hill Street Blues, and in therm of production, HSB probably conforted MTM in their capability of producing innovative shows. Many times I tried to think about which one was actually the best, but in the end I consider both of them pretty unique. St. Elsewhere indeed took from HSB the realist way of showing an institution in a poor neighbourhood inhabited by strong individuals, but the comparison ends there. What I prefer in St. Elsewhere is the liberty of the form, while HSB episodes structures were roughly the same all along the six or seven seasons.

With St. Elsewhere, they experimented a lot with the medium : many episodes have a totally unique shape, for example there's an episode completely made out of dream sequences, another one exploring the past of the institution while another one offers a narration from an old woman's window who's only occupation is to watch the hosptial life from her window... That was really bold for the time, and usually it is completed brilliantly.

And yes I can only advise you to try to re-watch the show if you ever get the possibility (are there still any re-runs of St elsewhere these days???) as the show evolves quite uniquely along the seasons.
Neat that a European would take so much interest in an eighties U.S. show that hasn't gotten much attention in the internet era. Were you old enough to catch it when it first aired in your country?
Actually, not at all because I'm 25, so the show ended when I wasn't even born. The thing is that recently there was quite a big renewal in television drama studies here in Europe (I'm from Belgium). Many scholars wrote about television history in which Hill Street Blues and St. Elsewhere are always quoted, without the author actually seeing theses shows. Since I'm perfect billingual I decided to give HSB and St. Elsewhere a shot and boy was that a good decision!

Noiradelic
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:45 am

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#4 Post by Noiradelic » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:54 pm

Tawfik wrote: Yes it shares quite a few things with Hill Street Blues, and in therm of production, HSB probably conforted MTM in their capability of producing innovative shows. St. Elsewhere indeed took from HSB the realist way of showing an institution in a poor neighbourhood inhabited by strong individuals, but the comparison ends there.
The stylistic similarities are not only the realism, but the black comedy and the soapy elements: a distinctive blend.
What I prefer in St. Elsewhere is the liberty of the form, while HSB episodes structures were roughly the same all along the six or seven seasons.

With St. Elsewhere, they experimented a lot with the medium : many episodes have a totally unique shape, for example there's an episode completely made out of dream sequences, another one exploring the past of the institution while another one offers a narration from an old woman's window who's only occupation is to watch the hosptial life from her window... That was really bold for the time, and usually it is completed brilliantly.
Good points. Hill Street Blues occasionally had an episode that was distinct from the others -- the David Mamet-written episode come to mind -- but not in the way you describe those St. Elsewhere episodes. Makes me want to watch the whole series!

flyonthewall2983
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#5 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:12 pm

Is this streaming anywhere?

User avatar
Ashirg
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:10 am
Location: Atlanta

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#6 Post by Ashirg » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:17 pm

Season 1 of St. Elsewhere and Seasons 1-3 of Hill Street Blues are streaming on Hulu

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#7 Post by domino harvey » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:21 pm

And like many MIA on DVD series, there are plenty of bootlegs available for the whole series up on iOffer

User avatar
Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#8 Post by Gregory » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:57 pm

Tawfik wrote:With St. Elsewhere, they experimented a lot with the medium : many episodes have a totally unique shape, for example there's an episode completely made out of dream sequences, another one exploring the past of the institution while another one offers a narration from an old woman's window who's only occupation is to watch the hospital life from her window...
To say nothing of the much-discussed series finale!
SpoilerShow
...which suggests that the director of medicine at St. Eligius, Donald Westphall, is really a construction worker (?) and the action of the entire series had taken place in the imagination of his autistic son. And as if that wasn't more than odd enough already, they had to have a special MTM logo screen that shows [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCSszVNqwh0]Mimsie the cat flatlining and dying?[/quote]
I gather that the writers were going for a unique kind of series ending that would bring everything to a close in a way that would seem completely final (no spin-off series, reunions, etc.) but still, what an mind-boggling decision to end a fairly realistic medical drama that way.

User avatar
Polybius
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:57 pm
Location: Rollin' down Highway 41

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#9 Post by Polybius » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:07 am

Alfrie Woodard's character Roxanne Turner turned up on a fine episode of Homicide: Life On The Street (redundant) called Mercy in 1998. She has some truly spellbinding scenes with Andre Braugher.

Begley's Dr. Ehrlich was in the TV movie that wrapped the show in 2000.

Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, OZ, Homicide, The Wire, Treme...they're all of a piece, to me.

Tawfik
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 7:08 am

Re: St. Elsewhere (1982-1988)

#10 Post by Tawfik » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:38 am

Noiradelic wrote: The stylistic similarities are not only the realism, but the black comedy and the soapy elements: a distinctive blend.
Yes you're quite right, they really used the soapy fundamentals in a very digressive way, a little bit like some of Douglas Sirk's works (but maybe I'm pushing it too far...). Twin Peaks also used brilliantly that kind of soapy elements.
domino harvey wrote:And like many MIA on DVD series, there are plenty of bootlegs available for the whole series up on iOffer
Yes I suppose that in 2016 if you try a little hard nothing's really unwatchable. But these bootlegs are most likely tv rips (which probably means they are the censored version, which were completely butchered at some point from season 3). What we need is a complete Box set that really does justice to the show, unlike the official DVD of the first season which is kinda presented in a way to sell out on Denzel Washington's popularity : the cover shows him up front, although he never was the most interresting character of the show nor the best actor (hard to top William Daniels, Ed Flanders or Norman Lloyd who were at the top of their game).
To say nothing of the much-discussed series finale!
SpoilerShow
I just never knew what to think about that finale... At the same time I think it was pretty ballsy as much as it feels like a complete joke...
Anyway I can't believe it was something ever really planned...
Polybius wrote:Alfrie Woodard's character Roxanne Turner turned up on a fine episode of Homicide: Life On The Street (redundant) called Mercy in 1998. She has some truly spellbinding scenes with Andre Braugher.

Begley's Dr. Ehrlich was in the TV movie that wrapped the show in 2000.
Alfrie Woodard was quite the actress, she also had a very intensive part in one or two Hill Street Blues episodes, as the woman who looses her child during the electoral campaign. She really nailed that part, as small as it may have been...

I guess it's no coincidence either if William Daniels played a famous heart surgeon (who's first name is Craig) in Grey's anatomy. It all makes sense in the end because St. Elsewhere was constantly making references to tv cultures in their dialogs. To actually list every cultural references, hints and crossover would pretty much make a whole encyclopedia.

Post Reply