The Showz of Josh Schwartz

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Murdoch
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
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The Showz of Josh Schwartz

#1 Post by Murdoch » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:14 pm

So does Gossip Girl ever become anything more than a bunch of conceited characters making exasperatingly stupid decisions? I'm near the end of season 2 and have no interest in continuing. I'll admit to some fleeting desire to see more of Chuck Bass and to having sympathy for Serena and Dan staying together, but I find myself skipping most scenes to get to whatever storyline I find halfway entertaining.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: TV of 2012

#2 Post by Andre Jurieu » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:54 am

Murdoch wrote:So does Gossip Girl ever become anything more than a bunch of conceited characters making exasperatingly stupid decisions?
I think you already know the answer to that question.

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Murdoch
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Re: TV of 2012

#3 Post by Murdoch » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:10 pm

Yeah, but after dredging through two seasons I don't want to believe that I wasted that much time on yet another cookie cutter teen melodrama.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: TV of 2012

#4 Post by Andre Jurieu » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:57 pm

Murdoch wrote:Yeah, but after dredging through two seasons I don't want to believe that I wasted that much time on yet another cookie cutter teen melodrama.
I have to sheepishly admit that I have a critical soft-spot for the stuff Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage produce, if only because they cast such likeable personalities (perhaps less-so for this show) and drop a bunch of film references (both high and low-brow) into their scripts. Yet, while it's obvious that this show now just functions as a cash cow for them, none of their shows are ever able to sustain themselves for more than a couple of years. Perhaps it's due somewhat to the fact that they stepped away from regular involvement with this show so they could concentrate on a handful of other projects, but even any mildly amusing stuff that they started with is rendered rather exasperating and inert after a few seasons, simply because they just keep recycling the same scenario repeatedly. They actually tried to take the characters in a slightly different direction in the later seasons, but it was executed so poorly and without any real conviction that they just wound up hitting re-set and reverting back to their standard plots and character behavior, which seemed to be a decision that the new show-runners arrived at based on reading too many internet comments section posts.

This is probably simply over-estimation on my part, or just wishful thinking to provide some weak justification of my interest in these types of shows, but it honestly feels like Schwartz and Savage keep conceiving these shows that are attempts to create a modern, albeit low-brow, adaption of Rules of the Game, but they usually wind up butchering the execution somewhere along the way because it honestly cannot be sustained beyond a few episodes. They should probably realize it's a futile effort considering they can't even sustain their own interest in the project.

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Murdoch
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Re: Gossip Girl

#5 Post by Murdoch » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:10 pm

I do agree with you about Schwartz-Savage, as I find that the shows have an underlying charm, but their efforts succumb to the inevitable pitfalls of this genre. There were moments watching Gossip Girl where I saw hints of a good show - Chuck Bass and Dan Humphrey nearly becoming friends only for Dan to exploit it, some great throwaway lines like "Jenny Humphrey who used to sit in Brooklyn and watch the lights across the water." The literary and film references you mention were a nice addition (except hearing Hilary Duff say "go-dard"), but like so many of these shows I was guessing what would happen episodes before the plot finally resolved itself.

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Professor Wagstaff
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Re: Gossip Girl

#6 Post by Professor Wagstaff » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:36 pm

"Gossip Girl" is particularly frustrating because most if not all of the parental figures are horribly unlikable. An early Scwartz production that I kept returning to despite a massive quality drop-off was "The O.C.", based largely on the charms of Kelly Rowan and Peter Gallagher as the Cohens. The cast on that show also benefited from performers like Adam Brody, Rachel Bilson, and Autumn Reeser - all of whom could bring a great deal of levity to the overdone drama. Characters like Chuck Bass and Blair Waldorf can lighten the mood much of the time with their devilish scheming, but under the weight of everyone else's deadly dull and serious tone it doesn't make much of a difference.

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wigwam
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:30 am

Re: Gossip Girl

#7 Post by wigwam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:26 am

Once the series ends I plan to compile screenshots of each instance of a cellphone-screen insert. Also the facial expressions everyone makes are endlessly hilarious. Murdoch, you should give it one more season to see if you like when they get out of school and everyone changes partners and it gets insanely soapy.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Gossip Girl

#8 Post by Andre Jurieu » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:27 pm

Murdoch wrote:There were moments watching Gossip Girl where I saw hints of a good show - Chuck Bass and Dan Humphrey nearly becoming friends only for Dan to exploit it...
Guess what keeps happening in every other plot line involving Dan and any friend he has made? Seriously, it gets insanely tedious and dull to watch this show take old episode scripts and just "find and replace" one of Dan's friends with another. They really gave up on that character quickly. I had assumed that decision might have been because Penn Badgley has such a limited range, but then I heard that his performance in that Jeff Buckley biopic was actually receiving some praise at TIFF this year (that was shocking).
Professor Wagstaff wrote:based largely on the charms of Kelly Rowan and Peter Gallagher as the Cohens.
I really do miss the Cohens. If the show weren't so needlessly (and hilariously) overwrought at times and hadn't kept throwing unnecessary distractions at them, Sandy and Kirsten probably could have given FNL's Eric & Tami Taylor some competition as the best married couple on TV.
Professor Wagstaff wrote:The cast on that show also benefited from performers like Adam Brody, Rachel Bilson, and Autumn Reeser - all of whom could bring a great deal of levity to the overdone drama.

Completely agreed. At least these characters provided some humor and normal behavior while Ryan was spending every waking moment brooding over stuff (by the way, isn't it surprising that Ben McKenzie is actually doing decent work on Southland?).

I keep thinking that the poor casting choices really limited the potential of GG, because very few of their actors ever get an opportunity to make their characters genuinely likable, even if just for a fleeting moment. I can understand the appeal of Blake Lively and I understand why Hollywood will continue to attempt to turn her into star, but her character on GG barely registers with any kind of real joy or appeal. The only exception, both in terms of actress and character is Leighton Meester/Blair, who has undoubtedly become the central character of the show and provides the only really engaging personality for the audience to latch onto. It helps that Meester seems to have some range of emotion and seems capable of adapting to different tones. Chuck started out as somewhat interesting, but now he just seems like an excuse for the wardrobe department to try out funky color combinations (seriously, why else does Ed Westwick walk into every scene like he's on a runway? It looks like he probably trips himself up multiple times in the outtakes).
wigwam wrote:Murdoch, you should give it one more season to see if you like when they get out of school and everyone changes partners and it gets insanely soapy.
It was that soapy tone towards the end that kind of made the show so tiresome to me, because it basically was an admission that the characters didn't really even matter to the writers anymore. I never really found that happening with The O.C., even when they started adding some ridiculous supporting characters and getting into weird story-arcs. I guess it's because the partner-exchange really didn't seem to matter much and instead of using it as an opportunity to have the characters grow in some new or noticeable direction, they just realized fans weren't buying in immediately and half-assed the delivery. Obviously, attempting this on an established show with character dynamics already defined is always tough, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued in a genuine fashion in order to have the characters evolve in some way. That's actually something I really respect Happy Endings for continuing to pursue and I thought The O.C. actually accomplished, even though both shows are pretty much confectionery TV fluff (we're not talking about the same heavyweight class as Mad Men, Breaking Bad, or The Sopranos).

This is honestly the most I have ever discussed this show with anyone. I honestly can't believe I've devoted this much thought towards it.

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Murdoch
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Re: Gossip Girl

#9 Post by Murdoch » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:46 pm

Andre Jurieu wrote:This is honestly the most I have ever discussed this show with anyone. I honestly can't believe I've devoted this much thought towards it.
Here, here!

Sorry wigwam, I gave part of season three a shot but still can't keep my interest. These melodramas only work for me when I have a group of characters I can grasp onto. That's why Friday Night Lights and My So-Called Life represent the apex of this genre for me, as they both overcome their flaws - FNL's exasperating romances and occasionally tedious plotlines, MSCL's sappiness - by focusing on giving their characters depth. Many of the characters in GG are simply transplants of The O.C. characters: former surfer dad, now a former rock star dad, both moms are uptight society types with former carefree personalities; Dan/Adam Brody, the joking artsy nerd who pines for the popular girl (Rachel Bilson/Blake Lively), etc.

Okay, I've written way too much but there's something liberating about putting my grief with the show into writing.
Last edited by Murdoch on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Gossip Girl

#10 Post by Andre Jurieu » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:49 pm

Murdoch wrote:Okay, I've written way too much but there's something liberating about putting my grief with the show into writing.
Yeah, I think I'm on the same page.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Happy Endings

#11 Post by Andre Jurieu » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:37 am

domino harvey wrote:Do we have an OC thread? I recently finished the whole series (as you could probably guess from the last couple posts here) and it's one of the few shows I can think of that actually got drastically better in its last season!
I don't think we do, though a couple of us mentioned its relative strengths in the Gossip Girl thread (why are you admitting to this Andre? Why?).

I do enjoy that Schwartz routinely makes these types of references in the shows he is clearly targeting towards an audience that could not possibly care any less about these films. Then again, I guess that audience includes me ... and Murdoch ... and domino.

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Re: Happy Endings

#12 Post by Dylan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:54 am

domino harvey wrote:Ha, and by happenstance, just yesterday I watched an episode of the OC where Ryan Atwood of all characters is shown handling the Criterion edition of Solaris
Yes, I watched the fourth season of The OC too (albeit, when it first aired) Didn't that Solaris DVD show up in a few episodes? I seem to recall that but hell I was still a teenager the last time I set eyes on that show.

By the way, domino, you and I are the only ones I know of who watched all four seasons of The OC and thought that the last season was the best. I particularly liked Willa Holland, whose career still hasn't really taken off yet.
Last edited by Dylan on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Happy Endings

#13 Post by Andre Jurieu » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:53 am

Dylan wrote:By the way, domino, you and I are the only ones I know of who watched all four seasons of The O.C. and thought that the last season was the best. I particularly liked Willa Holland, whose career still hasn't really taken off yet.
Other than that weird cage-fighting storyline that they used at the start of that season, I think most viewers think that the final season of The OC was a respectable way for the show to conclude. I'm not sure if they think it was the best season, but it certainly allowed the characters to mature in a feasible way and it largely avoided all the psychotic plots of the first few seasons. Plus, Chris Pratt (though I thought he was kind of annoying on The OC)!

I always though Willa Holland was a good addition to the show and I was surprised that she hasn't really found more success. I think she might be on Arrow nowadays. If anything, she seems tailor-made to be used in a Sophia Coppola movie (she even shares the Hollywood-blood background that they can both bond over). Oddly enough, the girl that Willa Holland replaced as Kaitlin Cooper will actually have a much more successful career now (at least over the next couple years). Actually, I think Shailene Woodley will have a more successful career in the next couple years than anyone else associated to this show.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Showz of Josh Schwartz

#14 Post by domino harvey » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:40 pm

It's funny watching a show more or less removed from the initial fan response, as apparently most consider the third season of the OC the worst but while watching it was painfully obvious to me that the second season was the show's nadir. It took me forever to get through the second season and I very nearly gave up on the show despite its myriad strengths. There were just so many dumb soap opera twists and changes and it became very hard to give a damn about anyone since I knew they were just gonna change in a couple episodes. I thought the third season was a return to form and the show only got better for the fourth for some pretty obvious reasons. The show got rid of one of the main characters who stopped being cute and was just straight up annoying since halfway through season one. The show also finally halted Summer's descent into shrill shrewdom that dragged down that comic book triangle and gave her some capable comic moments. I really liked where they took that character, even if it is pushing it that Rachel Bilson's character as presented could be an untapped genius, her descent into tree-huggery in the fourth season is well-observed and provides some good counter to her primary interests. Most importantly, the show introduced Autumn Reeser's Taylor Townsend, who is instantly five times more interesting than anyone else on camera and gave the show a much needed comic breather for the remainder of the series. Mainly I was so glad the show in its last season was first and foremost fun and after the opening rarely descended into the dour melodrama that often threatened to drag the show completely under


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domino harvey
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Re: The Showz of Josh Schwartz

#16 Post by domino harvey » Sat May 07, 2016 5:45 pm

And because that's stupid, it's up on Hulu now too

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: The Showz of Josh Schwartz

#17 Post by Andre Jurieu » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:31 pm

Looks like Hulu and Fake Empire (Schwartz & Savage) have a pretty good relationship in place:

Brian K. Vaughan and Adrian Alphona's "Runaways" are heading to Hulu. Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage have teamed with Marvel Television to bring the comic book series to live-action in a brand new series.

Hopefully this is more Schwartz than Savage, since it sounds like he's more captivated by the source material.

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