The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

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MichaelB
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The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#1 Post by MichaelB » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:23 am

This numbered, limited edition brings together three of Rossellini and Bergman’s greatest collaborations – Stromboli, Journey to Italy, and La Paura – in new digital restorations, and presents extensive extra features, including Rossellini’s rare 1952 feature film The Machine That Kills Bad People, Francesco Patierno’s 2012 documentary The War of the Volcanoes, and Isabella Rossellini’s exquisite and personal My Dad Is 100 Years Old (Isabella Rossellini, 2005).

Stromboli, Journey to Italy, and La Paura will all be released in stand-alone DVD editions.

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#2 Post by ellipsis7 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:50 am

Excellent... This is on BluRay I'm presuming, just slightly concerned whether LA PAURA/FEAR will be the original English version... From the Cannes Classics 2014 notes on the restoration, warning against the Italian version...
It has been decided to screen the feature film in English, the original version, as part of Cannes Classics, there is also an Italian version of Fear (Non credo più all'amore - La paura) which the producers decided to make without the consent of the film director, three years after it was released as it had encountered so much success. They undertook to shorten the film, to add a voice over and to change its outcome. The film was digitally restored by 4K, by the “Cineteca di Bologna, Instituto Luce-Cinecittà, CSC-Cineteca Nazionale” and the Coproduction Office of the l’Immagine Ritrovata laboratory in Bologna.
LA MACCHINA AMMAZZACATTIVI (THE MACHINE THAT KILLS BAD PEOPLE), also recently restored, is a great extra...

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EddieLarkin
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#3 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:54 am

I can't imagine they'll need more than 3 discs for this, meaning MSRP should be the same as the War Trilogy set. £32 or so for the Fear/Machine to Kill Bad People disc is a little pricey, but I suspect I'll bite anyway.
ellipsis7 wrote:Excellent... This is on BluRay I'm presuming, just slightly concerned whether LA PAURA/FEAR will be the original English version... From the Cannes Classics 2014 notes on the restoration, warning against the Italian version...
Since they're probably using that very same 4K restoration, I'm confident there isn't anything to worry about.

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#4 Post by ellipsis7 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:03 am

I'm guessing so too, but it should be billed as FEAR or ANGST, not LA PAURA then...

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Dr Amicus
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#5 Post by Dr Amicus » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:05 am

ellipsis7 wrote: LA MACCHINA AMMAZZACATTIVI (THE MACHINE THAT KILLS BAD PEOPLE), also recently restored, is a great extra...
Too right - it's one of my favourite Rossellini films, up there with Francesco.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#6 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:09 am

ellipsis7 wrote:I'm guessing so too, but it should be billed as FEAR or ANGST, not LA PAURA then...
Yes, I suppose you are right. As as I understand it, Fear was not merely dubbed in different languages, but was actually shot twice with direct sound, once with the actors performing in English, and then again with them performing in German, with editing differences. So both of those non-dubbed versions, Fear and Angst, are legitimate and ideally both need to be on there, though for English audiences Fear obviously takes priority (certainly Angst has more claim to be included than the Italian versions of Stromboli or Journey to Italy). The Italian dubbed versions of the film (there was more than one) can be discarded completely, presumably along with the title "La Paura" (strangely, I seem to recall the version Criterion had to stream was one of these Italian dubbed versions).

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Max von Mayerling
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#7 Post by Max von Mayerling » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:44 am

I just checked & you are correct - the criterion hulu version has Italian dubbing.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#8 Post by swo17 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:57 am

Looks like another great set, but does the BFI not have rights to Europa '51?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#9 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:25 am

Europe '51 was not part of the 9 film Rossellini Project, and the transfer that appeared on the Criterion set was their own exclusive restoration. So even if the BFI do have the rights, they likely wouldn't be able to justify the extra expense in licencing the Criterion master.

The only Rossellini Project film that is not appearing across both of the BFI sets is India: Matri Bhumi, which is disappointing as it means there may not be a release of it at all.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#10 Post by cinemartin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:36 am

I may be completely wrong but I thought the restoration on Fear was of the Italian version. That version corresponded (I believe) with the English cut, so perhaps they could get their hands on that audio track? I have never seen Angst, but would love it if it was included. Not holding my breath, though.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#11 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:06 pm

I suppose one could interpret the quote from ellipsis7's to mean that only the Italian version was restored, which is hugely worrying. For the record, the Italian version is not a legitimate version of the film at all, it is merely a foreign dub. This isn't even the same situation as Stromboli for instance, where all versions of the film are dubbed, because the English and German versions of Fear are not dubs. I'm completely serious when I say that if the BFI only has the Italian track for this film, they should hold the release until otherwise.

As I said earlier, there are two Italian versions also. One is a straight dub of the English live sound cut, the other is a shorter edit (Non credo più all'amore) described in ellipsis7's post. I'm not sure which one, if any, was restored or which one is up on Hulu. There is a description of the changed ending on Wikipedia if someone with a Hulu account wants to check (the running time of the Hulu version, 79 minutes, is shorter than the quoted time on imdb, 84 minutes, but they are of course unreliable).

IF the BFI only have Non credo più all'amore then they basically don't even have the real film to release. If necessary, they should probably contact Tag Gallagher (where of course the information I've posted has come from) to ascertain exactly what they have and what they should do with it.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#12 Post by cinemartin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:15 pm

Pretty sure Non credo ... Was not restored, at least as I remember it. But yeah, thy version is an abomination - essentially destroying everything Rossellini did with the original film. It was also the version I saw first, which was unfortunate. I have a really horrible looking bootleg of the English version and the sound is very muddled - but better than the dub track in any case.

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Max von Mayerling
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#13 Post by Max von Mayerling » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:24 pm

The version on hulu ends with the suicide gesture, not in the countryside (which is how wikipedia describes the end of the Italian edit) - so it looks like the hulu version is an Italian dub of either the English or German version.

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#14 Post by ellipsis7 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:32 pm

That quote I posted is from the Cannes website word for word, and although the phrasing is slightly ambiguous I'm pretty sure the sense is that they screened the restored version in English... I would refer for the differences to Elena Dagrada's Le Varianti Trasparenti - I film con Ingrid Bergman di Roberto Rossellini the bible as regards the variations of these films...

This lists the following versions -

- German version filmed in German, titled 'Angst', released in Germany in October 1954.
- International version filmed separately in English with some dubbing & post synchronisation into English, titled 'Fear', released in the USA in May 1956 & the UK at the end of 1957/start of 1958.
- First Italian version - the longest extant, corresponds to the International version (dubbed into Italian) except for the opening which matches the German version & several fades which substitute for other forms of transition... This version was entitled 'La Paura', released in Italy in early 1955.
-Second Italian version - the shortest extant, was derived from the first Italian version, but is a major hatchet job, losing 11 minutes duration, introducing a narration, moving about scenes, altering the beginning & ending etc.. Released in July 1958 in Italy this version went by the title, 'Non credo più all'amore'.

So in fact what the BFI may be giving us is the First Italian version, 'La Paura', which pre-dates (release wise) the International version in English.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#15 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:48 pm

ellipsis7 wrote:So in fact what the BFI may be giving us is the First Italian version, 'La Paura', which pre-dates (release wise) the International version in English.
Perhaps, but just because La Paura predates Fear doesn't lend it legitimacy. The former is a dub whilst the latter is not. Rossellini didn't even participate in the Italian dub. It was strictly for Italian audiences, and I think he'd be upset at the idea of people in the UK watching that Italian dub instead of his live sound English version (which he of course was heavily involved in).

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#16 Post by tag gallagher » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:59 pm

I believe Fear will be in English. Bologna showed it in Providence in English but, alas, with Italian titles. I hope the BFI will use English titles.
As for INDIA, the problem is that what Bologna has restored is a fraudulent Italian "restoration" from some years ago which simply deleted chunks of footage where, I assume, footage in the Italian edition was too damaged, and then gave it out that all this mutilation was Rossellini's doing -- they now cite Adriano Aprà for this, but he had not seen the INDIA print prior to its "restoration," whereas I did, and so did Edoardo Bruno, and the last two minutes were there. But they're not there in the copy which Bologna has been distributing, which thus is a castration and a fraud. Because this footage, as well as at least one other excruciatingly beautiful and important shot are to be found in the French edition. The French edition has a slightly more interesting voice-over but, except for the footage deleted by the Italian "restorers" is exactly the same visually.
There is also the problem that both of these two prints, French and Italian, had badly faded, and no one has made an attempt to restore hue and density, which is quite easily done, even by an amateur fiddler such as myself, and I am hoping that the BFI and Bologna will set up about doing a proper job presenting this movie which Godard called "the creation of the world"!!!! You should write them and urge them to do so.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#17 Post by cinemartin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:18 pm

That's encouraging regarding Fear but discouraging regarding India. Although this India mess has been going on for so long, it's pretty much expected. Pity, as it's such a beautiful film.

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The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#18 Post by TMDaines » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:34 pm

As much as this box set sounds a bit of a hodge-podge, I'll still be in for Fear, La macchina and La guerra die vulcani alone in HD.

If only the German-language Angst were available. That's never even turned up on the backchannels. Fear is only in a terrible state too.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#19 Post by swo17 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:02 pm

I'm just noticing that the specs credit My Dad Is 100 Years Old to Isabella Rossellini (who wrote and stars in it), though it was actually directed by Guy Maddin. Some people might want to be warned about that!

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#20 Post by ellipsis7 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:39 am

Image

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#21 Post by Zot! » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:03 am

However unlikely, they've managed to make an Ingrid Bergman cover ugly.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#22 Post by domino harvey » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:09 am

It is a remarkably bad cover. Harvest Time with Ingrid Bergman

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TMDaines
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#23 Post by TMDaines » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:11 pm

I only download GIMP the other day to try and put some artwork together for an obscure Italian film for Plex, and I genuinely think that I could do better already.

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R0lf
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#24 Post by R0lf » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:30 am

It's kind of, extremely, annoying that they are still doing single releases but DVD only.

Have BFI abandoned multi format releases completely?

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#25 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:00 am

This set is slated for release on 20th July...

Originally (in 2013 or so I think) STROMBOLI & JOURNEY TO ITALY were slated as dual format releases from the BFI... In fact that cover art can be seen here and here but then that plan was pulled, the project stalled for a while, before the two films emerged as part of this limited edition Rossellini- Bergman Blu-Ray set alongside single DVD releases...

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