Sergei Parajanov

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jsteffe
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#51 Post by jsteffe » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:45 am

Levon Abrahamyan's commentary should be fascinating! He was an anthropologist working in Haghpat when Parajanov was filming there (the scenes of Sayat-Nova as a monk). I met him in person a few times, and he has all sorts of fascinating anecdotes about the film and about Parajanov, with whom he remained friends for many years.

Edit: corrected spelling of "Haghpat."
Last edited by jsteffe on Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MichaelB
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#52 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:51 am

Rather scarily, this will be a quadruple dip for me - I already have the Kino, Films Sans Frontières and Japanese Columbia discs!

But they're all very badly flawed indeed, and on paper Second Sight looks like a clear winner. And I can't believe the main film is going to be worse than the other discs.

ivuernis
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#53 Post by ivuernis » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:55 pm

MichaelB wrote:Rather scarily, this will be a quadruple dip for me - I already have the Kino, Films Sans Frontières and Japanese Columbia discs!
Likewise! I have the old Connoisseur tape (does VHS count), the Kino and earlier edition of the Columbia disc.

ivuernis
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#54 Post by ivuernis » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:20 am

Second Sight now have the details up for the disc:

ORIGINAL RATIO 4:3
Audio: Dolby Digital 2.0
COLOUR PAL
Region Code 0
Running Time 70 MINS
Georgian Language / English Subtitles
Cert: TBC
Cat no: 2NDVD3206
THE COLOUR OF POMEGRANATES
SPECIAL EDITION

a film by Sergei Paradjanov

‘**** A REMARKABLY BEAUTIFUL AND INSPIRING FILM’ Empire

Sergei Paradjanov’s celebrated, dreamlike masterpiece paints an astonishing portrait of the 18th century Armenian poet Sayat Nova, the ‘King of Song’. Paradjanov’s aim was not a conventional biography but a cinematic expression of his work, resulting in an extraordinary visual poem. Key moments in his subject’s life are illustrated through a series of exquisitely orchestrated tableaux filled with rich colour and stunning iconography, each scene a celluloid painting alive with stylised movement.
One of cinema’s most revered and beautiful films, The Colour of Pomegranates is a unique and rewarding experience that haunts the memory long after viewing.

SPECIAL FEATURES
• ‘World In A Window:
Making The Colour of Pomegranates’
A new 75 min documentary by writer and filmmaker Daniel Bird.
• ‘Memories of Sayat Nova’ – by Assistant Director Levon Grigoryan.
• Commentary by Levon Abrahamyan (Anthropologist, Armenian Academy of Sciences) moderated by Daniel Bird.
• Introduced by Daniel Bird.
• New improved subtitles.


At 70mins runtime it looks like it's the so-called Yutkevich version. I wasn't expecting anything definitive but will be picking this for the extras alone. If the picture is an improvement on the Colombia disc then it'll be a bonus!

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MichaelB
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#55 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:24 am

Given that the Yutkevich version looks far, far better than the Armenfilm version, I'm happy with that - not least because the Japanese disc didn't have English subtitles. An ideal edition would include both cuts, but the rights situation would probably be a minefield.

On paper, this certainly looks like the best version by far.

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perkizitore
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#56 Post by perkizitore » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:26 pm


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jsteffe
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#57 Post by jsteffe » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:11 pm

MichaelB has some encouraging initial remarks about Second Sight's new edition of The Color of Pomegranates:
Well, I've got some pretty thrilling news.

I've only had a chance to skim it so far, but it's already clear beyond any doubt that Second Sight have finally broken the Colour of Pomegranates duck.

As expected, they're using the Sergei Yutkevich cut, but since the source materials are in infinitely better condition than the ones for the (so-called) "director's cut" featured on the Kino and Films sans Frontières discs, that can certainly be forgiven. A perfect edition would have both cuts, of course, but I accept that this may have been contractually impossible.

Until now, the OOP Columbia (Japan) disc was the benchmark for picture quality, but Second Sight's is distinctly superior. For starters, the magenta cast has been banished, the colours are noticeably more vibrant, and I think there's more visible detail in the picture too.
David M. has kindly posted screen captures here.

Full disclosure: I participated in the documentary but haven't seen the finished disc yet, nor have I seen the apparently superior transfer. I must say that I can't wait!

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MichaelB
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#58 Post by MichaelB » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:15 pm

jsteffe wrote:Levon Abrahamyan's commentary should be fascinating! He was an anthropologist working in Haghpat when Parajanov was filming there (the scenes of Sayat-Nova as a monk). I met him in person a few times, and he has all sorts of fascinating anecdotes about the film and about Parajanov, with whom he remained friends for many years.
I'm delighted to confirm that the commentary is both fascinating and great fun. He does a superb job of unpicking and clarifying the film's dense symbolic layers (I've seen the film many times in various versions, and there were loads of details that I missed through sheer ignorance of the culture and language), but he's also got plenty of gossipy production anecdotes, some of which are decidedly earthy (for instance, the one about the donkey becoming visibly aroused at Sofiko Chiaureli's touch, necessitating a retake).

I particularly liked the way that he kept chuckling to himself when drawing distinctions between authentic ethnographic detail and stuff that Paradjanov invented purely because he liked the way it looked - the affection for both artist and film in his voice is unmistakable. Some may be put off by the strong accent and the occasional vocabulary flubs (English is very obviously not his first language), but it's really worth sticking with to the end.

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knives
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#59 Post by knives » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:19 pm

So I'm assuming this is now the DVD to go with? I have seen and know nothing of Parajanov and it sounds like this DVD is a good runner for such types.

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jsteffe
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#60 Post by jsteffe » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:13 pm

Thanks for the review, MichaelB! I really can't wait to sit down and listen to the commentary from beginning to end.

knives, based on the new documentary (which I have seen) and MichaelB's comments so far, this edition should be an easy first choice because it apparently has the best picture quality of the available versions, and the newly created supplements offer some substantial historical and interpretive context--to say nothing of insights into Parajanov's personality--which make the film accessible to first-time viewers in a way that wasn't possible before.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#61 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:07 am

Second Sight's edition is the first choice by miles - none of the others comes anywhere close.

It's not just the fact that it has the best picture (the only comparable edition is the now OOP Japanese one, which had a slight magenta cast and no English subtitles) but also, as jsteffe says, the fact that the extensive extras make a far more concerted attempt at clarifying the film than anyone's managed thus far.

These even extend to the subtitles, which make a point of identifying which language is being spoken, in the process revealing that a sequence that I'd always assumed featured the same poem being repeated three times in different voices is actually being recited in three different languages, Azerbaijani, Georgian and Armenian. So the notion of Sayat Nova as the great regional poet, able to speak across national and linguistic barriers, now comes across powerfully in a way that I'd completely missed before.

And that's before we get onto the extras, which are superb - I still have half the documentary to finish, but it was only extreme tiredness that made me pause it last night, as I found the first half enthralling (and jsteffe is one of the main contributors!).

I've already praised the commentary, and I also liked Levon Grigoryan's Memories of Sayat Nova, which as far as I can make out is an alternative précis of the film, based heavily around deleted footage (the scene in which the boy Sayat Nova spies on the inhabitants of the bathhouse was clearly intended to be much more graphically erotic, and I can see why the Soviet censors had a problem with it).

The only problem with the new edition is that it's based on the Soviet cut assembled by Sergei Yutkevich cut and not the Armenian release version, the latter apparently being closer to Paradjanov's intentions (with the proviso that there's no such thing as a true "director's cut"). I understand that including both versions would involve tiptoeing through a rights minefield, and with that in mind they were right to favour the Yutkevich version, for the simple reason that it survives in far, far better physical condition. I'm also not especially fussed about its omission because I have both the Kino and Films Sans Frontières editions, both of which are still available.

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zedz
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#62 Post by zedz » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:02 pm

I can't wait to get my hands on this. Of course, including both cuts would be the dream release, but I'm pretty relaxed about it, especially since the chances of getting the Armenian cut looking as good as the Yutkevich one are probably remote. Crappy as it is, the Kino release will do as a reference copy for the differences between the two versions.

Completists should probably also track down the hours of outtakes, which are fascinating as 'advanced studies' but don't add all that much to the genius of the film itself, in whatever cut.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#63 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:16 pm

zedz wrote:Completists should probably also track down the hours of outtakes, which are fascinating as 'advanced studies' but don't add all that much to the genius of the film itself, in whatever cut.
A fair number of the outtakes are incorporated into the extras. Memories of Sayat-Nova is explicitly constructed around the outtakes, while the documentary also takes full advantage - especially in the section about how the film was edited, where you have (for instance) the production designer talking about an elaborate scene which was shot and then cut, and then we see the actual shot in question.

Incidentally, the documentary also reveals that Paradjanov's own cut existed for maybe a fortnight before being initially altered to make the Armenian cut (the so-called "director's cut", though it really isn't), complete with Armenian intertitles that Paradjanov couldn't read (despite being of Armenian ancestry, he was essentially Georgian, and while he spoke some Armenian, he didn't know the alphabet), in a style that apparently didn't suit the film's quasi-medieval ambience at all. Five prints of that version were struck (which explains why decent copies may no longer exist, though apparently one of the prints is in better condition than the one used for the Kino release), and then the original neg was cut again to create the Yutkevich version.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#64 Post by TIMYOUNG » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:33 pm

Re. Levon Grigoryan's 'Memories of Sayat Nova' - This has been available in the Uk for a year now on the Ruscico 'Pomegranates' disc I purchased from the BFI filmstore at the NFT. It is also on the Ruscico 2DVD 'Paradjanov Code' set which I purchased from the NFT filmstore also, again, one year ago. Given its lavish content regarding unseen 'Pomegranates' footage (90+ shots including 8 of the 12 shots that differentiate the Armenian 'directors cut' from the Yutkevich), why is it only just being mentioned here?

Being a fan of the BFI VHS Yutkevich edit issue of 'Pomegranates' from the 1990's, I found the Ruscico discs mentioned above absolutely fine and do not understand their unpopularity in this thread. The Yutkevich cut, and the quality of the materials it was composed from, is/are perfectly adequate in presenting this superb film, which, as has been pointed out by others, is impossible to present in a defining 'directors cut'.

J. Steffens Armenian Review article on the film needs greater circulation, and his book publication date is the one really interesting bit of information we should all be rooting for. The Second Sight disc is just another step on what will be a long journey for this films future curatorship and consumption.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#65 Post by dbird » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:57 am

Regarding Tim's post:

The RUSCICO edition, while adequate, is far from perfect - something illustrated by the frame grab comparisons posted elsewhere on this forum.

Yes, I agree about Levon Grigoryan's documentary (although it has always been mentioned in the press release) I did recommend that the film be screened at the BFI during the Paradjanov retrospective last year - it's an invaluable paraphrasing of rushes.

About the article - James paraphrases the contents of his article in the documentary, which I contrasted with the views of Levon Grigoryan, Levon Abrahamyan and Naum Kleiman.

James' forthcoming book will be a turning point in Paradjanov studies - the documentary merely provides a taster.

Also, it is worth mentioning that Levon Grigoryan is also publishing a new book on Paradjanov (in Russian).

Hopefully the Second Sight edition will kick start interest in a full scale restoration of a.) the Yutkevich version AND b.) the Armenian version, along with c.) the complete rushes - this is not only long overdue, but it will be also be a mammoth task.


Daniel Bird

*** FULL DISCLOSURE: I was involved in the production of the Second Sight DVD ***

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#66 Post by TIMYOUNG » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:18 pm

Regarding Daniels post -
Thanks very much for your information Daniel, I very much look forward to the documentary on the forthcoming disc. I suppose I was only highlighting the rushes contained in the Grigoryan presentation because personally I find them so fascinating - in terms of how they expand our knowledge of the seemingly exponential directions Parajanov could have gone prior to ANY form of edit/censorship, and certainly prior to the Yutkevich interventions. Some of the out-takes are among the most beautiful single shots from amongst the totality of 'Sayat Nova' material I have thus far seen...at which point..

Ten years ago, while programming and booking for a UK non-mainstream venue, I exhibited all seven Tarkovsky features and four Parajanov over a month on 35mm. SURAM and ASHIK came from the BFI, ANCESTORS from Contemporary (virtually bleached of colour) and POMEGRANATES from Nora Armani's (then) Parev Productions. She came herself to present the film and after much discussion I ascertained that she was ignorant of the then recent (2001) Kino DVD release, when I showed her the Sight and Sound review she seemed quite annoyed. The print we showed was obviously the Armenian (in her ownership, not sure of details...) from post-Soviet Armenia. We showed it with HOVNATANIAN (also her print..Armenian). The important point being that the POMEGRANATES 35mm contained material not in any other 'Armenian edit' I have subsequently seen. Also the 'rights' issues are surely irreconcilable given the post-soviet heritage of the film?? Any more info??

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#67 Post by MichaelB » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:57 am

The first five minutes of Daniel Bird's documentary The World is a Window.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#68 Post by TIMYOUNG » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:30 pm

It doesn't look as if anyone on the thread has any further information regarding the post-Soviet rights issues and commercial distribution (theatrical and sell-through) surrounding COLOUR OF POMEGRANATES. Presumably Second Sight licensed the upcoming Yutkevich from Ruscico?

From my own detailed investigations into the subject, it is almost certain that there has been illicit commercial activity surrounding materials from and relating to COLOUR OF POMEGRANATES since at least the break up of the ex- SOVIET UNION, and almost certainly prior to that also. This activity relates overwhelmingly, but not entirely, to the Armenian edits and related materials.

For the sake of the reputation of this immensely important film, and the future curatorial activity related to the PHYSICAL (not academic) security of this priceless work, I would urge a concerted effort on behalf of all devotees of the film to ascertain the legitimate commercial origins of any materials relating to the film that they may encounter.

E.G Both 'Armenian' and Yutkevich edits are on Youtube in really excellent quality as of this posting...

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#69 Post by dbird » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:21 pm

Dear Tim,

Sorry for the late reply - only just looked at the thread.

CoP was licensed from RUSCICO.

I completely agree with you about the physical security of the materials - I talked about this very subject at the BFI last year at the Paradjanov symposium:

http://www.vertigomagazine.co.uk/showar ... =1&id=1212" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding the Second Sight release, we tried very hard to include both versions.

However, there are questions about whether or not both versions are, in a legal sense, two separate films, or one and the same.

A decision was made to include just the Yutkevich cut.

I hope this is not interpreted as a gesture suggesting that the Yutkevich version is in anyway 'definitive'.

Rather, as the negative was cut to make the Yutkevich version (and the negative is now in Moscow), the quality of the Yutkevich version will always be superior to the Armenian cut.

Completists can readily acquire copies of the Armenian version from both FSF in France and Kino in the US, and, as you point out, YouTube.

I would, however, disagree with you about the quality.

Obviously, the editing of the Colour of the Pomegranates, as well as the question of its recutting, forms a large part of the documentary I produced for the DVD.

I can assure you that you are not alone in wishing that all versions of the film deserve a full scale digital restoration.

Regarding your previous post about Nora Armani - as far as I can remember from a conversation I had with Nora about this subject - she was one of several people representing Armenfilm abroad.

I first visited Armenfilm studios in 2004 - it has since been sold off, and the former director of Armenfilm studio is now the director of the Armenian Film Centre.

The Armenian Film Centre was established by the Armenian Ministry of Culture to promote Armenian cinema.

However, the actual back catalogue of Soviet era Armenian films (i.e. 'domestic films' that did not end up in Moscow for distribution throughout the USSR) has been acquired by an Armenian TV station.

Hope that answers your questions!

best,

Daniel

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#70 Post by MichaelB » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:25 am

dbird wrote:A decision was made to include just the Yutkevich cut.

I hope this is not interpreted as a gesture suggesting that the Yutkevich version is in anyway 'definitive'.

Rather, as the negative was cut to make the Yutkevich version (and the negative is now in Moscow), the quality of the Yutkevich version will always be superior to the Armenian cut.
Just to expand on that, the various extras go into a fair amount of detail about the differences between the two versions (and between those and Paradjanov's no-longer-extant original cut), so they're certainly not pretending that the Yutkevich cut is the best. But the documentary also explains in some detail that it's a rather more complex situation than a typical piece of unthinking Soviet butchery (Yutkevich was highly sympathetic towards Paradjanov and the film), and that the Armenian version has quite a few problems of its own.

So I'd say they made absolutely the right decision: if faced with a rights-driven choice between two demonstrably flawed versions, but one is in conspicuously better visual condition than the other, it makes sense to go for that one - especially since with this film above all, you want it to look as good as possible. Put it like this, if I'd produced the disc myself, I'd have made exactly the same decision.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#71 Post by jsteffe » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:40 pm

MichaelB, I agree. All things considered, they clearly made the right decision to go with the Yutkevich cut. I would very much like to see a better-looking transfer of the Armenian release version, but I suspect that is unlikely to happen until someone does a full-scale restoration of the film and sorts out the underlying rights issues.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#72 Post by TIMYOUNG » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:36 am

Re. Rights et al...

The really interesting aspect that arises from concern over the security and curatorship of CoP elements, is the strange limbo that the film{s} have entered in the current age of non-contract digital transaction. Although it is now a commonplace to see non-rights cleared music video expropriations of Yutkevich neg/edit material, some really interesting (mostly originating from Iran...says alot about the cultural resonance of the film on 2011..), there also arises the completely neo-dada likes of TELEVANDALIST (which google alerts brought up on my iphone recently). Either seen as an idiotic slur on the film by traditionalist, neo-liberal hegemonic film critics, or as legitimate (non-contracted) evidence of the power of CoP images to transfix guerilla film tech-heads, BOTH forms testify to the original power of CoP's vignette frame/startlingly obsessive mise-en-scene/actor direction - the clips utilised on-line almost always being of Sofiko Chiureli - androgynous and timelessly contemporary as they are. Happily, in one sense, CoP images will always be out there as digital simulacra...

With rights being such a mess, policing of such postings, let alone of the entire versions of the Yutkevich and Armenian edits also readily available on youtube, is seemingly non-existent. One wonders what Paradjanov's attitude to this contemporary currency of his agonizingly produced images would be...laughter, rage or flattery??

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#73 Post by admira » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:35 am

ZÓNA (Czech republic) just released edition of The Color of Pomegranates with both versions included. Review

Image

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MichaelB
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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#74 Post by MichaelB » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:42 am

Unless you speak Czech, you'd be much better off with the Second Sight edition and either the Kino or Films Sans Frontières if you want the Armenian cut as well.

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Re: Sergei Parajanov

#75 Post by frankjg » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:15 am

Hello everyone, I've been a fan of Sayat Nova since I first heard of it about 5 years back. I always was on the fence for which version to get a copy of, and I just found an on demand DVD from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Color-of-Pomegran ... B00710W3SO It says Russian language English Subs, 73 Min. Has anyone seen this, and are there any other released versions with Russian? I will try and see if it looks like any of the other releases' screen caps, and maybe I can make some. I am hoping its pretty good since it costs about the same as others and has no bonuses. Since everyone else here has done much to investigate this film, I figure I'd pitch in. I hope it isn't set up by someone who just downloaded and did it themselves!
FrankJG

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