Lars von Trier

[therewillbeblus]

Has anybody done a full compare of extras between the new box set and various other releases, that could potentially be linked? So far I haven't shed any previous discs due to nicolas' report of inferior encodes, but I may be willing to (read: would love to free up shelf space by-) dump a few if the supplements overlap..

I was just about to open my set and the booklet to go through everything when I remembered this wonderful breakdown of the extras in the Curzon set: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=42

Which (older) BDs do you have and wish to dump?

Thanks! Well I have the Dogville German BD I want to keep for the commentary (assuming it's good), and probably hold onto the Criterion Antichrist...

I also have U.S. releases for Melancholia and Nymphomaniac (Magnolia) and The House That Jack Built (Shout!) - I'm wondering most about those

[swo17]

I also posted about the set here. I'm keeping the standalone releases of Nymph()maniac and The House That Jack Built for the theatrical cuts. Also Criterion's Europe trilogy for the exclusive bonus films

[nicolas]

Has anybody done a full compare of extras between the new box set and various other releases, that could potentially be linked? So far I haven't shed any previous discs due to nicolas' report of inferior encodes, but I may be willing to (read: would love to free up shelf space by-) dump a few if the supplements overlap..

I was just about to open my set and the booklet to go through everything when I remembered this wonderful breakdown of the extras in the Curzon set: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=42

Which (older) BDs do you have and wish to dump?

Thanks! Well I have the Dogville German BD I want to keep for the commentary (assuming it's good), and probably hold onto the Criterion Antichrist...

I also have U.S. releases for Melancholia and Nymphomaniac (Magnolia) and The House That Jack Built (Shout!) - I'm wondering most about those

I have the two Magnolia releases you mentioned, which are the two best editions of the respective films I’ve encountered so far. Melancholia in particular is very good compared to mediocre encodes on the Curzon (their old Blu-ray with a LvT commentary is included in the set, the Magnolia doesn’t have that commentary) and the Swiss BD which is notable for presenting the film natively in 25fps. The Swiss BD is OOP anyway and usually fetches high prices whenever someone sells a copy, which is apparently rare according to some posts on the other forum. I hope I can get my hands on the Korean release, which is extremely expensive on eBay as it’s long sold out as well but the film is in my all-time top 10, so I might just do it one day.
Nymphomaniac could look a little better on the Magnolia as well but the Curzon (their old discs were also recycled in the set) is still inferior.
I don’t have Shout’s The House that Jack Built but will pick it up in the future as I’m not fully convinced about the Curzon disc. (I suspect they employed a heavy low-pass filter but I’m not comfortable claiming this as I haven’t seen the film and don’t know if the master is intentionally "muddy" and less detailed). If the Curzon isn’t filtered and representative of the master, I don’t see anything else against it.
The Curzon box set BDs of the new 2K/3K/4K LvT masters are all preferable over their international alternatives (Criterion or Potemkine are significantly worse).

[therewillbeblus]

Thank you, nicolas and swo! I had forgotten that writeup of the differences. I had no idea Antichrist shared extras - might unload that disc then. I'll keep the rest. I'm also trying to unload a sealed copy of the Europe trilogy because I don't care for those shorts, but apparently nobody wants it!

[nicolas]

Thank you, nicolas and swo! I had forgotten that writeup of the differences. I had no idea Antichrist shared extras - might unload that disc then. I'll keep the rest. I'm also trying to unload a sealed copy of the Europe trilogy because I don't care for those shorts, but apparently nobody wants it!

If you have the Criterion Antichrist I’d definitely keep that one for the superior video encode compared to the Curzon. Yes, I’m not kidding. Criterion wins by a huge margin compared to the Curzon, which is another recycled disc that should have received a new encode. This old, 2009 Curzon disc is a BD-25 and genuinely horrendous. I think they were just about figuring out what they’re doing with the then-new format. Antichrist was a culprit of that. If I remember correctly from my tests, the audio on the Criterion should also be quite a bit better.

I think you’ve got to hold on to all of your old LvT discs as a supplement to that “definitive” Curzon set. I haven’t sold a single disc of his films that I owned before. Even though it would’ve been nice to have one perfect, definitive set, I’m still happy that the new transfers look very good on the newly encoded discs.

[swo17]

As I said in my write-up, I could perceive maybe only a very slight difference between the Criterion and AE for Antichrist. This was from spot checking various parts of the film. I'm curious if there are any scenes in particular that you feel show a "huge margin" of difference. Also worth noting that the Criterion has been slowed down to 24fps

[nicolas]

As I said in my write-up, I could perceive maybe only a very slight difference between the Criterion and AE for Antichrist. This was from spot checking various parts of the film. I'm curious if there are any scenes in particular that you feel show a "huge margin" of difference. Also worth noting that the Criterion has been slowed down to 24fps

I went back and checked both discs to refresh my memory. The Curzon has the problem of giving too much bitrate to moments with fast-moving camera movements or actions on screen and way too little bitrate for static shots. This causes scenes like in chapter 2 (around minute 7) with Charlotte Gainsbourg in the hospital to show ugly macroblocking and severe banding in the blueish-gray gradients of the walls. As the camera moves, even just a little, I can’t help but notice the mush of pixels there. The Criterion gives these rather static shots more room to breathe, which is noticeable as the gradients from light to dark resolve much more seamlessly. The noise next to the bright lamp a few seconds later is blocky and unnatural on the Curzon even in motion. The Criterion looks great even on still frames. Yes, it’s slowed down to 24fps but I’d trade the better encode for the original frame rate.

If you like, I can attempt to make some caps tomorrow and see whether the differences are visible there.

[therewillbeblus]

That's helpful, thank you both again. I don't think any of the discs will actually sell for anything, but I just have limited shelf space right now. At the same time, I'm not giving up any of these discs if they have better picture or supplements or cuts I may prefer. So here we are!

I did watch the AE Dogville blu last night and it did seem to play a little smoother than the German release. It's also really nice to have English subtitles.

[nicolas]

That's helpful, thank you both again. I don't think any of the discs will actually sell for anything, but I just have limited shelf space right now. At the same time, I'm not giving up any of these discs if they have better picture or supplements or cuts I may prefer. So here we are!

I did watch the AE Dogville blu last night and it did seem to play a little smoother than the German release. It's also really nice to have English subtitles.

The Curzon disc is indeed better optimized than the Concorde and also has all the original English intertitles. When watching such a disc, it’s always jarring to read German titles and texts when you’re so immersed in the original audio.

[jtarvainen]

I wonder if someone could confirm that the UK Blu-ray of Riget is uncut? Its IMDb page mentions the following:

For the UK release, 5 seconds were cut from the fourth episode ("The Living Dead") where Rigmor shoots rats with a pistol. The footage was cut under the Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act of 1937, which forbids the depiction of cruelty to animals.

[Captain Paranoia]

I think that the BBFC changed their mind and it was released on DVD uncut by Second Sight (which from what I've heard, was for a time considered to be the best release of the show as it has all the extras from the Zentropa DVD as well the documentary "Transformer").

On a side note, could someone post the BDInfo for the new discs on the Potemkine and Curzon sets? There aren't that many reviews of the set despite Von Trier's popularity. I'm surprised that not even DVDCompare has the Curzon set listed on their site although they have the Potemkine set listed on there.

[nicolas]

I think that the BBFC changed their mind and it was released on DVD uncut by Second Sight (which from what I've heard, was for a time considered to be the best release of the show as it has all the extras from the Zentropa DVD as well the documentary "Transformer").

On a side note, could someone post the BDInfo for the new discs on the Potemkine and Curzon sets? There aren't that many reviews of the set despite Von Trier's popularity. I'm surprised that not even DVDCompare has the Curzon set listed on their site although they have the Potemkine set listed on there.

I’m currently too busy to do this but the BDs they sourced from the new restorations are all excellent and currently the best available versions of the films if you’re intending to buy the set . The films they released earlier are all the same old discs just with new disc art, which is disappointing as some of them show their age by now. Nonetheless I’m happy with the purchase.

[therewillbeblus]

It's a wonderful set. I did some comparisons between discs and definitely don't notice the subtle differences in Melancholia, Antichrist, etc. that nicolas does (I'm sure they're there, though!) so I was able to sell a few off and consider this my definitive LvT stock (other than my copy of Dancing in the Dark, and Nymphomaniac for the theatrical cut option - which feels much more vital than The House That Jack Built's, imo)

[Captain Paranoia]

I did find the disc info for the Breaking the Waves 4K UHD on the Blu-Ray.com forum:
Disc Label: BREAKING_THE_WAVES
Disc Size: 98,939,667,935 bytes
Protection: AACS2
Playlist: 00000.MPLS
Size: 98,229,789,312 bytes
Length: 2:39:14.916
Total Bitrate: 82.24 Mbps
Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 73606 kbps / 2160p / 24 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / BT.709
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 2304 kbps / 24-bit
Audio: English / DTS-HD Master Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 2535 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Subtitle: English / 27.079 kbps

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It does appear to be the best release of the film at the moment.

[therewillbeblus]

Hmm I wonder how substantial an upgrade it is in motion

[Captain Paranoia]

I don't know, I haven't seen any reviews of that release at the moment. I would have figured that DVDBeaver would have reviewed it, but surprisingly no. I'm going to assume that (as another person in this forum said), that the negative backlash from Curzon's release of the Wenders set caused potential buyers to swear off Curzon sets.

I'll try to get a copy of the Curzon Von Trier set first chance I get (and when I have enough bread to get it). I'm also looking forward to MUBI's set of the Kingdom trilogy.

[therewillbeblus]

I'm also looking forward to MUBI's set of the Kingdom trilogy.

I'm looking forward to somebody else adding their thoughts on Exodus, once more people have seen it

[nicolas]

Hmm I wonder how substantial an upgrade it is in motion

It definitely is. Highlights are clipped to death (meaning no grain there at all but no distracting macroblocking) but otherwise it’s a very beautiful disc that easily tops both the CC and Curzon BDs. Definitely consider upgrading if you “like” the film. The Criterion in particular isn’t too well encoded.

[Captain Paranoia]

I wonder what the chances are for a Criterion UHD of the Breaking the Waves? (Although I think I read somewhere that their license expires in 2025, in which possibly MUBI will put out a release).

[Captain Paranoia]

Though I have heard that Criterion UHD releases are mixed when it comes to image quality (Curzon's UHD of the Three Colors trilogy was considered to be better than the Criterion UHD picture quality wise), so I would like to see what a different distributor would do with the film.

Although I would like to see US Blu-Ray releases of Von Trier's early 2000s films before a US 4K UHD release on Breaking the Waves.

[nicolas]

Though I have heard that Criterion UHD releases are mixed when it comes to image quality (Curzon's UHD of the Three Colors trilogy was considered to be better than the Criterion UHD picture quality wise), so I would like to see what a different distributor would do with the film.

Although I would like to see US Blu-Ray releases of Von Trier's early 2000s films before a US 4K UHD release on Breaking the Waves.

A potential Criterion UHD would likely be nearly identical since Curzon released their UHD based on a SDR master. Criterion would take that over and not add HDR afterwards unlike the BFI for The Seventh Seal for example. Encoding-wise, I doubt it'd be much better.

[therewillbeblus]

Do we know which discs do not have SDH English subtitles? From what I've watched so far, only The House That Jack Built doesn't (and stuff like Europa doesn't either, if it already has English cc subs for non-English language, but that means the English isn't subbed)

[nicolas]

Do we know which discs do not have SDH English subtitles? From what I've watched so far, only The House That Jack Built doesn't (and stuff like Europa doesn't either, if it already has English cc subs for non-English language, but that means the English isn't subbed)

Their newly encoded disc appear to have English subs for the foreign parts and the ones they reused are without subs. This and the occasionally strong difference in encoding quality compared to the excellent new discs makes them being lazy here a little frustrating. This is what I see in the set:

The Orchid Gardener - English Subtitles
The Element of Crime - no subs (fully English)
Epidemic - partial English Subtitles
Medea - English Subtitles
Europa - partial English Subtitles
Breaking the Waves - no subs (old disc)
The Idiots - English Subtitles
Dogville - English SDH Subtitles
The Five Obstructions - English Subtitles
Manderlay - English SDH Subtitles
The Boss of it All - English Subtitles
Antichrist - no subs (old disc)
Melancholia - English SDH Subtitles
Nymphomaniac - no subs (old discs)
The House that Jack Built - no subs (old discs)

Edit: Dogville and Manderlay are two new discs with English SDH. Maybe they’ll give these individual releases down the line or a two-disc set similar to their Wenders BDs after doing the collection. Instead of creating new subs, they could have simply ripped them from another DVD / BD or downloaded them online. I believe this is what they did for the Wenders films. I added English subs to the French Tokyo-Ga BD and ripped my Curzon BD from the set as I wasn’t sure those I downloaded were right. Turns out Curzon used the exact same ones I downloaded that were made for a DVD back in the day complete with a “subtitles by…” credit at the end of the film credits which matched the file I had.

[therewillbeblus]

Thanks nicolas, that's frustrating about a few of the neglected