The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions (Decade Project Vol. 4)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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domino harvey
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#751 Post by domino harvey » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:46 pm

swo17 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:43 pm
Rayon Vert wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:25 pm
In some ways, I wish we were starting a round 2 right now so I could spend the next 9 months doing a deep dive exclusively watching films that I haven't yet seen.
Well we're done with the '40s for now, but if people would appreciate a longer Round 2 window for the '50s (e.g. 6 months for Round 1, 3 months for Round 2) I'd be open to it
I’d be down for maybe a slightly less drastic version of that: say doubling the existing two week rescue round to a month?

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domino harvey
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#752 Post by domino harvey » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:49 pm

Rayon Vert wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:25 pm
domino harvey wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:01 pm
so I guess I'll post my list.
I'm second-doubting myself less for putting Saboteur at no 15 seeing that you've got it at 16! Really a tremendously fun action film.
I still think the finale is Hitchcock’s finest moment

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Rayon Vert
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#753 Post by Rayon Vert » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:00 pm

swo17 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:43 pm
Well we're done with the '40s for now, but if people would appreciate a longer Round 2 window for the '50s (e.g. 6 months for Round 1, 3 months for Round 2) I'd be open to it
Sorry, I think I confused you by using the words "Round 2". I just meant that after spending 9 months doing revisits & first viewings of missed classics, I would've been up for doing another 9 months of exploring everything else that's still out there.

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domino harvey
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#754 Post by domino harvey » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:04 pm

There’s never enough time, especially for this and the next two decades. Hell, the sixties list could probably support a year or two and still not give everyone enough time to see all that should be seen!

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Rayon Vert
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#755 Post by Rayon Vert » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:38 pm

The 60s is definitely impossibly cruel.

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#756 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:06 am

I feel like I'm perpetually on the 60s, and all other projects revolve around its black hole of sirens

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domino harvey
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#757 Post by domino harvey » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:14 am

Let’s petition swo to allow Top 100s for the 60s List only. Just think swo, that’s like twice as many entries in your Excel sheet to organize, everyone wins!

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#758 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:22 am

Whatever gets Michel Deville on more lists is the right move, though I expect campaigning for a select few in the 70s will be more successful after doing some grass-roots work in the 60s.

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#759 Post by domino harvey » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:24 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:22 am
Whatever gets Michel Deville on more lists is the right move, though I expect campaigning for a select few in the 70s will be more successful after doing some grass-roots work in the 60s.
I’m reasonably confident that for the 70s List the two of us will be responsible for L’ours et la poupee and L’apprenti salaud qualifying for the all time list even if no one else sees the light in time!

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#760 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:30 am

Having just revisited both to ensure my feelings haven’t dwindled, I can fervently confirm this theory

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#761 Post by HinkyDinkyTruesmith » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:48 am

Since others are posting their entire list, I will (largely because I'm a bit too lazy to figure out which of them were orphans/also-rans). I regret never getting around to doing a write-up for Cluny Brown––I've been wrestling with articulating many of my more impressionistic feelings about it. Alas, it still did pretty well, considering some of the lukewarm responses I've seen on the board. I think it's the only one of my top ten that won't be eligible for the all-time list (but the previous decade's Angel, which was my number one, will be, so, take the wins with the losses).

To be honest, I'd say around 30 or so, it's all guesswork and a bit of polemics. To Each His Own actually was much lower until I rewatched a bit of it––the moment that sold me was the fade to the past, with the beams of light and whatnot . . . just dazzling. And I still recommend highly to everyone to get around to JOHNNY DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE, which is just a wild-ride.

1. Hail the Conquering Hero
2. A Canterbury Tale
3. Late Spring
4. Cluny Brown
5. How Green Was My Valley
6. The Third Man
7. His Girl Friday
8. Brief Encounter
9. The Big Sleep
10. It's a Wonderful Life
11. Notorious
12. Fort Apache
13. The Devil and Miss Jones
14. Gaslight (1944)
15. Letter from an Unknown Woman
16. Phantom Lady
17. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
18. The Shop Around the Corner
19. The Red Shoes
20. To Be or Not to Be
21. To Each His Own
22. The Little Foxes
23. Children of Paradise
24. Ride the Pink Horse
25. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn
26. Lured
27. She Wore a Yellow Ribbon!
28. A Foreign Affair
29. Foreign Correspondent
30. Out of the Past
31. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
32. I Walked with a Zombie
33. Holiday Affair
34. I See a Dark Stranger
35. Johnny Doesn't Live Here Anymore
36. Casablanca
37. The Miracle of Morgan's Creek
38. The Palm Beach Story
39. The Seventh Victim
40. Went the Day Well?
41. Brewster's Millions
42. Day of Wrath
43. Meet Me in St. Louis
44. Reign of Terror
45. Oliver Twist
46. I Love You Again
47. Force of Evil
48. Deadline at Dawn
49. They Made Me a Fugitive
50. None Shall Escape

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#762 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:15 pm

The high placement of Hail the Conquering Hero across most lists posted here bodes well for the all-time, even if it did just move up slightly from last project. I’d like to hear more thoughts on why others love it so much, considering my writeup was pretty (perhaps too) analytical in parts and I doubt everyone went that direction in defining impressions of it’s greatness. Simply speaking, I’m always looking for new ways to appreciate a great film

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#763 Post by Lowry_Sam » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 pm

Here's my list. I guess the most notable absence from my list is anything by Powell & Pressburger, who I've never warmed to, but if I were to include one, would be Black Narcissus. I guess my list more closely resembles the previous one than the new one as it seems Late Spring has fallen from favor.

I guess the biggest surprises for me are how highly It's A Wonderful Life placed given the discussion here, that Notorious placed higher than Rebecca, and all the love for The Best Years Of Our Lives over Wyler's other films continues to escape me after having revisited them.

1. Late Spring (Ozu, 1949)
2. Day Of Wrath (Dreyer, 1943)
3. Children Of Paradise (Carne, 1945)
4. Casablanca (Curtiz, 1942)
5. Citizen Kane (Welles, 1941)
6. Rebecca (Hitchcock, 1940)
7. Double Indemnity (Wilder, 1944)
8. Brief Encounter (Lean, 1945)
9. Out Of The Past (Tourneur, 1947)
10 Great Expectations (Lean, 1946)
11 Women Of The Night (Mizoguchi, 1948)
12 The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre (Huston, 1948)
13 Rome, Open City (Rossellini, 1945)
14 Body And Soul (Rossen, 1947)
15 Scarlet Street (Lang, 1945)
16 To Be Or Not To Be (Lubitsch, 1942)
17 Sullivan's Travels (Sturges, 1941)
18 The Lost Weekend (Wilder, 1945)
19 A Night Before Christmas/Larceny Inc. (Bacon, 1942)
20 The Great McGinty (Sturges, 1940)
21 Torment (Sjøberg, 1944)
22 The Strange Love Of Martha Ivers (Milestone, 1946)
23 Born To Kill (Wise, 1947)
24 Gentleman's Agreement (Kazan, 1947)
25 The Seventh Victim (Robson, 1943)
26 Lumière d'été (Grémillon, 1943)
27 The Little Foxes (Wyler, 1941)
28 The Great Dictator (Chaplin, 1940)
29 The Third Man (Reed, 1949)
30 Letter From An Unknown Woman (Ophuls, 1948)
31 La Terra Trema (Visconti, 1948)
32 Hangmen Also Die! (Lang, 1943)
33 Brute Force (Dassin, 1947)
34 Mildred Pierce (Curtiz, 1945)
35 The Murders Are Among Us (Staudte, 1946)
36 I Walked With A Zombie (Tourneur, 1943)
37 The Big Sleep (Hawks, 1946)
38 Bicycle Thieves (De Sica, 1948)
39 All The King's Men (Rossen, 1949)
40 The Heiress (Wyler, 1949)
41 House Of Strangers (Mankiewicz, 1949)
42 The Strange Woman (Ulmer, 1946)
43 Bedlam (Robson, 1946)
44 Ball Of Fire (Hawks, 1941)
45 Carnival Of Sinners/Le main du diable (M. Tourneur, 1943)
46 Appartment For Peggy (Seaton, 1948)
47 Force Of Evil (Polonsky, 1946)
48 Humoresque (Negulesco, 1946)
49 Riso Amaro (De Santis, 1949)
50 The Picture Of Dorian Gray (Lewin, 1945)

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Rayon Vert
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#764 Post by Rayon Vert » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:36 pm

Lowry_Sam wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 pm
I guess the biggest surprises for me are how highly It's A Wonderful Life placed given the discussion here, that Notorious placed higher than Rebecca, and all the love for The Best Years Of Our Lives over Wyler's other films continues to escape me after having revisited them.
I think a few people here spoke up for the Capra film, including myself. So I'm one of those who rated it highly, who prefers Notorious to Rebecca (which I also esteem), and who also thinks Best Years is far and away stronger than any of Wyler's other films, all decades combined (although I did also include The Heiress in my list) - in addition to having 4 P&P films! And yet... our differences are contrasted by the fact that we have four of the same films in our top ten. :)

On another topic, I was also surprised at the high ranking of Hail the Conquering Hero. I enjoy the film but rate several other Sturges higher, and none of those made my list, so I didn't give that one the benefit of a rewatch this time. Maybe I'll do so again the in future, especially if and when it gets an upgrade. The fact that I love both Lubitsch and Sturges' work and that none of their films made my list this time just shows me that, in terms of my own personal taste, comedies have a harder time competing with dramas and other graver genres when it comes time to making the biggest impact. Not counting musicals, only The Philadelphia Story and the black Kind Hearts and Coronets made my 50.

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#765 Post by therewillbeblus » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:05 pm

I know I’ve said it before but Hail the Conquering Hero was my least favorite Sturges for a while before everything clicked. I find it interesting that it seems to be a majority of the forum’s favorite as well considering the comedy often comes in less straightforward, quieter, and cumulative gags, as opposed to his other works. RV- the film, while undoubtably a comedy, likely earns points from many (myself included) for also serving as a pretty powerful drama on humility and camaraderie, amongst other more serious ideas. Out of all the Sturges, it’s the one that I find the most comedically clever and the strongest meditation on moral and dramatic identity conflict, in a rare even blend.

Rebecca and Notorious (and Shadow of a Doubt) were all neck and neck just outside my top 10 so I don’t personally find any marginally better than the others and it’s a coin flip depending on how the sun shines that day.

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#766 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:35 pm

The list looks great! Glad Thieve's Highway and Mrs. Muir made their way on. I need to catch up on Powell and Pressburger, as I've only seen about half of their 40s output. Also need to catch up on Ozu, but I'm still working on his 1930s work. I'd get to his 1940s films sooner if he didn't direct 3 movies a year during the 30s, most of which were forgettable but there were some gems here and there. I don't know why I watch a director's movies in order, I should mix it up more. Anyway, does criterionforum.com have a letterbox'd page with the list(s)? I see someone on LB posted some CF lists, but is there an official CF LB page that I'm not seeing?

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#767 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:22 pm

TM -- Actually, I find most of Ozu's 30s work pretty good (despite a few clunkers). No harm working your way through Ozu chronologically -- much more useful in his case than in many others because there are clear shifts/progressions over time. One has a better understanding of what Ozu is doing (and not doing) in his late films if you see just how he got to his late style. but one shouldn't ignore Naruse, Mizoguchi and Shimizu (and during the 30s, Yamanaka) -- and too bad Gosho, Shimazu and Uchida (among others) are essentially totally inaccessible. Much of the best Japanese cinema from the 30s on might as well not exist -- from the Western perspective.

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#768 Post by Rayon Vert » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:08 pm

Last batch of commentary write-ups - my timing was off about a week to coincide with the project's end. Finally I can now rejoin the land of the living!


Portrait of Jennie. (Kino BR: Troy Howarth). I did one of Howarth’s tracks the week previous. Here he ratchets up the life-and-career bios to a ridiculous 75% or so of the screen time. Literally every time a new actor appears on screen he starts up the routine (“Born in 1889…”), in addition to doing all the major offscreen players. Quite absurd in the end. What little time is left is devoted to broad, surface observations or information on things like the special effects. And to top it off we get again the constant audio thumps, which it’s more clear here are at least partially the result of microphone popping. Maybe he’s more interesting on all the commentaries he does for cult and horror films, but when it comes to Golden Age Hollywood films I’ll be giving him a pass from now on.

Raw Deal. (Classic Flix BR: Jeremy Arnold). Definitely on the better side. A bit too much time spent on the bios for the principal actors, but the track’s main focus is the film itself, often grounded in purely cinematic analysis of how the compositions, lighting and editing create meaning, along with drawing out the film’s themes, with in both cases references to Mann’s work in general.

Cry of the City. (BFI BR: Adrian Martin). Really solid work by Martin here. As usual with him the focus is on the film itself all the way through. I’d noted there was little study of form in his commentary for Hold Back the Dawn, but here the track is perfectly balanced by analysis of the plot (noting especially the “indirection” often involved), and of Siodmak’s visual technique and style through specific scenes. All of that is complemented by reading the symbolism present in the film, and doing so through referencing pre-existing scholarly work in this area.

Easter Parade. (WB BR: John Fricke & Ava Astaire McKenzie). So apparently Fricke is the go-to guy for the Freed musicals. This is a lot better than his commentary for The Pirate, probably in part because he’s not on his own but in a dialogue with Astaire’s daughter, so it’s not just an avalanche of facts, it’s better-paced, and it’s even, surprisingly, completely bio-free (!). It mixes spontaneity with preparation, including on Astaire McKenzie’s part. It’s mostly production backstory information and anecdotes, but the images on the screen aren’t ignored either, and it’s fairly entertaining and enjoyable, just like the one for Meet Me in St. Louis was.

House of Strangers
. (Fox Cinema Archives DVD: Foster Hirsch). This track isn’t listed on the backcover, although I imagine it was on the original Fox Film Noir series DVD. It isn’t exceptional but it immediately gains entrance into the better category because it just sticks to analysis of the film, from both narrative and formal angles, just going from scene to scene from beginning to end, with only the briefest digressions. Hirsch also includes critical commentary to single out what works and what works less.

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#769 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:48 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:22 pm
TM -- Actually, I find most of Ozu's 30s work pretty good (despite a few clunkers). No harm working your way through Ozu chronologically -- much more useful in his case than in many others because there are clear shifts/progressions over time. One has a better understanding of what Ozu is doing (and not doing) in his late films if you see just how he got to his late style. but one shouldn't ignore Naruse, Mizoguchi and Shimizu (and during the 30s, Yamanaka) -- and too bad Gosho, Shimazu and Uchida (among others) are essentially totally inaccessible. Much of the best Japanese cinema from the 30s on might as well not exist -- from the Western perspective.
Well thankfully Criterion Channel has a ton of classic Japanese. Almost the entire bodies of work of Ozu, Naruse, and Mizoguchi, plus at least a few from some of the other names you mentioned. It's a lot to get through, but hopefully someday I'll get there. As for Mizoguchi, Women of the Night is the only 40s film of his I've seen, which I think I had on my list.

But anyway, as for my question if CF had a letterbox'd page, I'm guessing the answer is no?

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domino harvey
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#770 Post by domino harvey » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:05 pm

As far as I know, no one's made Letterboxd lists for any of our recent List Projects. If you're interested, go for it!

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#771 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:35 pm

Naruse has almost 70 surviving films -- so CC has only a tiny selection. It does better with Mizoguchi -- but a number of important films are still missing. As to the the others, just a tiny smattering. Western familiarity with the vast bulk of important (and rewarding) classic Japanese cinema is fragmentary at best. Some rarities (esp. Naruse) have been fansubbed -- but the work of less well-known directors is pretty much invisible (no subbed releases at all -- and lots never made it from VHS to DVD or has never appeared on home video at all).

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domino harvey
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#772 Post by domino harvey » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:33 pm

swo17 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:52 am
domino harvey wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:38 am
Yeah, I have the Warner Archives set but a lot of these pop up as bonus shorts on WB discs. I know Phantoms, Inc is on some movie I saw recently because I'd seen it already, but that one's pretty fun too, all about fake seers milking rich rubes. Women in Hiding, about pregnant women being abused by manipulative baby brokers, is crazy and has a finale involving fire that looks like the only time MGM spent money on this series-- not sure if it's a bonus on any film or not, but could see it being paired with a melodrama of the period
It looks like Phantoms, Inc. is on The Postman Always Rings Twice BD and Women in Hiding is in the same Noir 3 set, on a bonus disc titled "Film Noir: Bringing Darkness to Light"
I went through some of the 30s entries last night and man, Drunk Driving is my new "favorite"-- these things are always so ludicrously moralistic and preachy that it's part of the charm, but this one dwells so effectively in the protagonist's anguish that it's really remarkable-- it ends with a extended shot of his anguished wail in response to all the lives he's ruined that's surprisingly haunting. Not sure if it's included on another DVD/Blu-ray but it's worth seeking out for sure

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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#773 Post by swo17 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:34 pm


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domino harvey
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Re: The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#774 Post by domino harvey » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:51 pm

And I now learned it was also very justly nominated for the Oscar for Best Two-Reel Short Film but lost to that awful Claude Rains in the Revolutionary War short!

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The 1940s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#775 Post by sir_luke » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:40 am

domino harvey wrote:As far as I know, no one's made Letterboxd lists for any of our recent List Projects. If you're interested, go for it!
In case no one has done this yet, I went ahead and threw this together, though I still have more details to add and some things to figure out (not sure how to represent ties, etc). I’ve done a few other lists, too, and hope to eventually have all of them made.

I welcome any suggestions on what I can include/change to make this more useful for y’all!

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