The Animation List Discussion & Suggestions (Genre Project)

[matrixschmatrix]

Incidentally, this is a playlist of interesting Russian shorts my girlfriend put together- hopefully with writeups to come.

[knives]

Der Fuhrer's Face is a classic. All of the Disney cartoons in that WWII "Homefront" tin are pretty interesting assuming one is interested in their historical context-- certainly it gives us a still-prescient take on Chicken Little!

Chicken Little really is one of the best shorts ever and possibly my favorite piece of propaganda ever since it goes so far beyond its intended goal while ripping that goal to shreds at the same time. Speaking of Education for Death is a highly disturbing film that manages to be a great look into the era that has some of the most effecting animation of all time. Generally I find Bambi to be the height of the realist animation style, but Education for Death is just as great while being more fascinating.

[Gregory]

Jackson's The Little House ... should be the sentimental claptrap that popular imagination has Disney as, but instead manages to be an intelligent metaphor on aging and conversely rebirth by community.

Like the kind of sentimental claptrap with cute and sometimes mawkish anthropomorphized characters, working on romantic notions of a nostalgic "simple life," (all inherent in the material being adapted, but Disney increases it until it's quintessentially them) which is largely what I'd say this offers. And one of those

SpoilerShow

"hey, but then everything turned out okay"

resolutions. Some nice moments, though, such as when the tenement to the right of the little house gets hit with the wrecking ball and the upper level, stunned, falls to the ground one layer at a time.
Thanks for the recommendations on the Goofy shorts, I'll give 'em a shot.

[Dansu Dansu Dansu]

I agree, the Disney wartime shorts are incredibly fascinating, especially the ones mentioned. Victory Through Air Power is pitiless and racist, though certainly in line with the cultural norms of the time.

Here's a question: how do we handle mixed media when the film is segmented between live action and animation? Victory Through Air Power and The Reluctant Dragon are examples, as are Ward Kimball's Tomorrowland episodes (unless we count that as part of the Disneyland TV show and not as a TV special, which they technically are, despite being delivered in the unusual Disneyland show format [here's some aspirin, sorry]). If we count them as TV specials, I would imagine they would qualify, as the point is the animation, and the talking head live-action segments, though sizable, are strictly used to deliver information. Any thoughts?

Also, I don't believe anyone has mentioned the Silly Symphony shorts, which are often more experimental than the character-based shorts, though more than half of them are terrible by any standard. Disney made two Walt Disney Treasures sets, though both of them are long out of print. It's been a while, but off the top of my head, the 1939 version of The Ugly Duckling, The Old Mill, and The Skeleton Dance are some of the better ones.

I'll write up a Studio Ghibli guide, unless someone else is already writing one?

[LQ]

My member spotlight is Frederic Back's The Man Who Planted Trees

I'm so glad to read that someone is flying the banner for this mesmerizing, deeply affecting film, one of my all-time favorites. Terabin does justice to the film's sound design in his description - the impressionistic animation is immediately dazzling, but the sound seems to linger even a touch more with me...desolate crackles of gravel and near-constant hollow rasps of wind to birdsong, rustling leaves, and purling water that sounds vividly cold and fresh...the whole cinematic experience is just so refreshing and inspiring. The fact that it'll be sowing seeds in some new, fertile minds thanks to this project makes me happy.

[matrixschmatrix]

I agree, the Disney wartime shorts are incredibly fascinating, especially the ones mentioned. Victory Through Air Power is pitiless and racist, though certainly in line with the cultural norms of the time.

Here's a question: how do we handle mixed media when the film is segmented between live action and animation? Victory Through Air Power and The Reluctant Dragon are examples, as are Ward Kimball's Tomorrowland episodes (unless we count that as part of the Disneyland TV show and not as a TV special, which they technically are, despite being delivered in the unusual Disneyland show format [here's some aspirin, sorry]). If we count them as TV specials, I would imagine they would qualify, as the point is the animation, and the talking head live-action segments, though sizable, are strictly used to deliver information. Any thoughts?

Broadly speaking, it's up to you- bring it up in the thread, present your case, and vote for it. But from my point of view, I'd say anything that has a significant animated section should qualify- as in, you could vote for Kill Bill part 1 if you wanted to. Just keep in mind that you're voting for it in terms of how well it works as an animated film.

As far as the TV show vs. special thing goes- my primary concern with the TV exclusion is that on the one hand, you aren't taking a single episode out of the context of a much larger work, and on the other, you aren't asking people to watch forty hours of TV for one possible entry (or voting for something without having seen it in its entirety.) If the shows you're referencing are discrete and work the way specials do- where there's no assumption that you'll watch any other episodes- then I'm not too concerned about how it would be listed in TV Guide. At worst, it's essentially an anthology series, which I'd be fine with allowing.

You're going to have to make a special effort to get enough people to watch any given show for it to make a list, though.

Everyone else- feel free to weigh in on this, I'm willing to debate it now (though I won't be if you bring it up on the last day of the project.)

[swo17]

I'm not familiar with the Disneyland TV series, but individual episodes from that sound like something that we generally define as a special, which would be eligible. For example, Fielder Cook's Patterns aired as part of the Kraft Television Theatre series, but it's always been eligible for the '50s list.

[dustybooks]

Within reach I have the Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, 1927-28, Mickey Mouse in black and White, 1928-35, and the Goofy shorts, 1939-61, but I probably will not have time to watch all of these, so any recommendations from among any of those would be especially appreciated.

Another shout-out for the Goofy set which is surprisingly consistent. One particular highlight I recall: the cartoon "How to Be a Detective" is hilarious and more manic than Disney ever gets credit for being, Caballeros aside.

[Dansu Dansu Dansu]

At worst, it's essentially an anthology series, which I'd be fine with allowing.

I'm not familiar with the Disneyland TV series, but individual episodes from that sound like something that we generally define as a special, which would be eligible. For example, Fielder Cook's Patterns aired as part of the Kraft Television Theatre series, but it's always been eligible for the '50s list.

Perfect, we're on the same page. You're right, the Disneyland show was an anthology series, with each self-contained episode focused on a distinct topic (unless part of a mini-series, such as Davy Crockett). In the case of the Tomorrowland series, each episode focuses on a different aspect of space exploration and/or science, and is deeply rooted in the optimistic futurism of the fifties. The animation is as far from the house style as possible, with most of the humor closer to that of a Goofy short, only drier. I'll have to watch them again before knowing if they are "spotlight" material, but they are worth checking out for those interested in something different from Disney. And as an added bonus, the Tomorrowland set is still available on Netflix.

[karmajuice]

So I will definitely take part in this, since I feel well-versed enough in animation to actually contribute. I will make a slew of recommendations within a week or so, but now I just want to comment on a previous post (all recommendations thus far have been great, and include a few I'll need to look into).

Everything Will Be Ok (2006, Hertzfield)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IUX0Qy-IDM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having seen none of Hertzfield's work to previous to this, I can say this was a pleasant introduction to a new acquaintance. Brilliant narration. Funny deadpan delivery. Fun experimenty animation style. An experimental animated short isn't the sort of thing that many people would call realistic, but I think it realistically depicts an emotional breakdown. So in that way, it's one of the more realistic films around.

I will heartily re-recommend this, and also expand upon the recommendation. Everything Will Be Ok is the first part of a recently finished trilogy, which also includes I Am So Proud of You and It's Such a Beautiful Day. All three films are remarkable, but you can see Hertzfeldt's style mature as he goes; his technique in particular grows more sophisticated with each film. I Am So Proud of You might be my favorite of the bunch, but they're all so good it's hard to say.
It's also worth noting that he has released the three films as one continuous feature as well -- so I suppose you could rank each of the three individually, or if you like them all, pull a catch-all and vote for the feature, which is what I'll do.
Hertzfeldt's earlier films are also worth investigating (especially Billy's Balloon, Rejected, and The Meaning of Life), though I won't be ranking them in order to save room on my list.

You can get all of his films via his website, http://www.bitterfilms.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and here's a direct link to the It's Such a Beautiful Day trilogy DVD, which is a substantial package, with a few solid extras and another short film of his called Wisdom Teeth.

[knives]

Speaking of Hertzfeldt he's recently talked about his experiences with the academy.

i have a handful of projects in front of me to possibly work on but they all seem to be floating underwater in slow motion and i'm not feeling a great urgency towards any of them yet. i have been sleeping for 9-10 hours every night, the weather has turned very cold very suddenly and i am still sort of feeling the same as last week
"it's such a beautiful day" did not even advance beyond the first round of voting for animated short at the academy awards this year, which will officially close the book with a clean-sweep 0 for 3 nomination shutout of all the bill films at the oscars. CONSISTENCY. these voting screenings are incredibly heartbreaking to attend even when you don't have a film in the running. voters watch 6-7 hours of shorts in a row and openly heckle the ones they don't like and by the end of the day your head is numb mush and you begin to feel like you are no longer watching cartoons but just having strange daffy duck visions. there's also a system where everyone is given a little flashlight, and for any film longer than 10 minutes, a little red light turns on in the theater at every 6 minute interval. and if you want to shut it off and throw the film out, you hold up your flashlight and when a majority of lights are counted, the film is eliminated... among the casualties this year was a 30 minute film that was shut off after 6 minutes. it's protocol that if your own film is playing, you have to leave the theater and wait for it to conclude before returning... years ago, upon returning to my seat during the end credits of "the meaning of life," an old guy yelled out, "BULLSHIT!" and i knew at that moment the film was doomed. this year, with a 23 minute short, i was more concerned that they wouldn't even make it to the ending, and i stood alone in the empty theater lobby next to a display case of harpo marx's jacket and props, putting my ear to the door every 6 minutes to listen if it was even still playing. a prominent disney animator walked out on it after 3 minutes. they didn't shut it off, but with the scores they wound up giving it i guess they may as well have

[zedz]

I guess this will be, to date, the easiest 'genre' to define, but just running through my first draft of a list, I've had to settle a couple of border disputes of my own, so for your consideration:

I'm defining animation in terms of still (or single frame, but in practical terms the still image may last a lot longer than that) imagery designed to create the illusion of continuity of motion. This will therefore exclude a number of drawn or painted films that are not intended to create the illusion of continuity of motion (or that do so only incidentally), such as Iimura's White Calligraphy, most of Brakhage's painted films (e.g. Black Ice, even though the optical zooms in that film do create a sense of movement in the viewer) or Fischinger's Walking from Munich to Berlin (even though that sporadically creates effects of pixillation).

One film I was assuming I'd include, Greenaway's A Walk through H, no doubt falls foul of this 'rule', so I'll leave it out. Maybe the trickiest category will be puppet films, which strictly speaking don't count as 'animated' unless they employ stop-frame techniques. I wasn't planning to include any of those earliest Svankmajer shorts, given the riches of pure animation he'll be crowding onto my list, but leaving out Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story might give me a pang or two.

There are another couple of close-but-no-cigar masterpieces I'll be excluding: Len Lye's Rhythm and Svankmajer's The Ossuary. In both of these cases, the films are (to the best of my knowledge) radical editing exercises in which continuous footage was chopped into single-frame (or thereabouts) submission, not films that were constructed from still images - which would be the case with something like Oh! I Can't Stop. . .. which is a stop-motion film in which it's the camera movement which is primarily being animated.

Also excluded will be films with too little animation in them. If most of a feature film is live action with only animated set-pieces - as is the case with most of the Svankmajer features that aren't Alice - I'll be leaving it out. It's not as if I'll be struggling to find films to fill the slots!

[swo17]

This will apparently be controversial, but "incidentally creating the illusion of continuity of motion," whether intended or not, constitutes animation to me. (I will most certainly be voting for Black Ice, probably in my top 10.) I'm having more trouble justifying something like Kineformy, where the only argument I can think of in favor of it being considered animation is the fact that it is included in that Polish animation set.

[zedz]

This will apparently be controversial, but "incidentally creating the illusion of continuity of motion," whether intended or not, constitutes animation to me. (I will most certainly be voting for Black Ice, probably in my top 10.) I'm having more trouble justifying something like Kineformy, where the only argument I can think of in favor of it being considered animation is the fact that it is included in that Polish animation set.

Yeah, I'm definitely not using the Polish definition of animation (which also encompasses New Book, which I'd love to vote for).

With Black Ice, maybe I should have explained, there is indeed motion in there, and it's absolutely intentional, but as I recall it's all created through optical zooms, not through any animation technique. The movement from 'painting' to 'painting' is discontinuous, but the zooming creates a paradoxical sense of falling (continuously) into the film. It's animated like a Ken Burns documentary is animated.

EDIT: Or like A Walk through H.

[swo17]

I guess the fact that each frame is a painting, even if there is no intentional continuity between them, still makes it animation to me. (I'd call it abstract animation.) Which of course would qualify all of Brakhage's hand-painted films, though Black Ice is likely the only one I'll have room for. (Maybe also The Dante Quartet.)

[Cold Bishop]

What about puppetry?

[zedz]

Replying to swo: Yes, I think we're on the same page, but one of us is recto and the other is verso, since that kind of discontinuous scramble (like Mothlight) is specifically what I'm defining animation against. No quarrel with you deciding otherwise. Personally, I'm relieved not to have to take all of that kind of thing into account, since it would eventually lead me to the doorstep of Arnulf Rainer and The Flicker. Both great films, but it would probably provoke some kind of existential crisis if I had to consider them animation.

[zedz]

What about puppetry?

See above. I'm personally defining it out, unless it's stop-frame work, but it's generally been included within the bounds of animation (based presumably on it often 'looking like' animation, even if it's shot as live action), so it's entirely understandable if you do so as well!

[matrixschmatrix]

Yeah, my reaction to these is they're all make a case and vote for it ones- I'm not specifically saying absolutely yes to all puppetry (outside of stop motion) but I can easily imagine Emmett Otter's Jug-Band Christmas showing up on my list, largely because it feels like animation. Likewise, experimental film gets so far into the grey zone that I'm happy to have people just go with whatever feels right, so long as you realize you might be stuck with some orphans.

We're all pretty much agreed that Motion Painting no. 1 is animated, though, right?

[knives]

I think all of Fischinger's musical films should count absolutely as animation especially considering they are the basis for Fantasia, a film he worked on.

[zedz]

We're all pretty much agreed that Motion Painting no. 1 is animated, though, right?

Yeah, it's basically pixillation of a painting being painted, frame by frame, stroke by stroke. An extraordinarily complex painting, but it boils down to the same basic idea as one of those 'magic drawing' films from the turn of the century.

[zedz]

Tackling my draft list, I started thinking about key animators, then about my favourite films by each of them, so this can serve as a kind of rough and ready 'viewing guide' / set of recommendations from me:

Jan Svankmajer - As other people have noted, this is surely a no-brainer. Alice will probably be his highest ranking film for me - it's a completely revelatory masterpiece, profounly in tune with the spirit, if not the letter, of Carroll's book. Of the shorts, Darkness Light Darkness will dominate, but I expect there will be so many of them vying for attention that I may have to artificially exclude some in order to make space for other darlings.

Oskar Fischinger - I've been banging the drum for Motion Painting No. 1 as long as I've been on the forum, but it'll have tough competition from the recently debuted / revived Raumlichtkunst, which is probably the most visionary film of the 1920s and damn near the most visionary film of the 2010s as well.

Len Lye - Free Radicals - the best 3D animation you don't have to wear glasses to see.

Disney - Pinocchio - it's all good, but the final 20 minutes may be the all-time greatest stretch of classical animation, still mindboggling to this day.

Studio Ghibli - My Neighbour Totoro, of course, on the Miyazaki side, and Only Yesterday for Takahata.

Tex Avery - When I first saw Deputy Droopy, it was one of the funniest cartoons I'd ever seen. Umpteen viewings later, it still is.

The Brothers Quay - As noted in the horror list, Street of Crocodiles, but Rehearsals for Extinct Anatomies will also rate highly.

Norman McLaren - I need to do an immersive rewatch, but I'm sure to be voting for Begone Dull Care and Blinkity Blank.

Yuri Norstein - Tale of Tales, the Mirror of animation

International Rocketship / Marv Newland - Sing Beast Sing, though I bet most of you will succumb to the subtle charms of Bambi Meets Godzilla.

Aardman Animation - I feel like they peaked with The Wrong Trousers and they've been struggling to replicate that film ever since, with diminishing returns, but I'm sure Creature Comforts will also find a home on my list, all I need is - space.

Pixar - I'll probably squeeze in a couple of features - no ideas which ones - but I'll definitely be voting for the short Presto.

Warner Brothers - Duck Amuck!

Music Videos - Gondry's done some goodies (The Hardest Button to Button and Star Guitar spring to mind) but other than those and Ali Click - if that counts as animation - I might not have room.

No idea yet what I'll include by Cohl, Borowczyk, Lenica and Belson, and I'll probably not include anything by the Fleischers, but don't let that stop you exploring.

[knives]

Spheres will be my McLaren of choice if just because I probably owe it to my students. I also have to give a small shout out to A Ballad About Green Wood by Jiri Barta. I'll probably speak about him more indepth at the moment, but that is the short that always manages to take my breath away.

[tarpilot]

He hasn't been mentioned yet, so I thought I'd at least toss a preliminary vote of support to Ryan Larkin. If I end up submitting a list, Street Musique will certainly be ranking high. I hope someone more knowledgable than myself can put together a National Film Board of Canada primer.

[knives]

The hilarious thing is that I just rented Rhino's Ryan disc set today. I'm familiar with the three Larkin films which of course are simply fantastic (I actually find En Marchant to be my favorite), but I haven't seen the other films yet.