What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?

[domino harvey]

Mission statements on websites always make me feel like I've just been handed the company's resume--
OBJECTIVE: To release important classic and contemporary films

[jedgeco]

I seriously doubt this release would've been the biggest project Criterion had ever undertaken. Perhaps the quick turnaround...Criterion couldn't commit to release something that big in two months.

Agreed. The nature of the film alone suggests to me that this isn't Criterion's biggest project. There was no need to locate and obtain quality source material for the main presentation, nor archival searches for supplemental material. If the Fincher crew wants to suck each other's dicks over the collection of features they put together, that's great, but it's hard to ignore the much more ambitious and more-difficult-to-assemble packages Criterion has delivered in the past.

FWIW, I'm thinking of the supplements that are on the Zodiac BD. There's a lot of stuff that was shot on set contemporaneous with the filming. I'm sure Criterion doesn't have the staff to have a producer on the film location to document things like that.

Criterion core business is digitally restoring old films and digging up archival materials; putting together supplements for a just-released blockbuster is simply a different business.

[psufootball07]

I question why this is a part of the collection, but anyways here is what appears to be the Criterion DVD menu posted on Youtube.

[Cold Bishop]

Are you sure that isn't just a custom menu by the Youtube user? I find it very unlikely "Carnival of the Animals" would be used, and it looks like something that could be easily slapped together with basic software.

[psufootball07]

Good thoughts, but based on the font, which is the same as the CC site and the image too. This video was posted long ago, probably by the artist or some relative. I love the music, reminds me of Days of Heaven.

[Dylan]

The DVD menu is the teaser trailer with some overlapping images. I find it highly unlikely that this is legit.

By the way, the music reminds you of Days of Heaven because that's where it's from. This is a new choral arrangement of Carnival of Animals by Camille Saint-Saens but while it's in Benjamin Button's teaser, it's not in the actual film.

[keeproductions]

And I believe that Criterion always uses the word "Chapter" instead of "select a scene."

[CSM126]

And I believe that Criterion always uses the word "Chapter" instead of "select a scene."

Keep in mind that the entire DVD package, menus included, was designed by Fincher's personal DVD producer, not Criterion, so it's entirely possible that the phrase "Select a Scene" could be used because of that. Not that this proves the menu shown on youtube is real, of course, but don't go expecting this to be a truly "criterion style" package.

And if that is real, I think it's quite lovely. Then again, I'm a sucker for Carnival of the Animals.

[Rich Malloy]

I want to make clear that I don't have an issue with this film - haven't seen it, doesn't quite look like my cup of tea, but I think Fincher is a director of merit and I have no problem with the presence of his films in the Collection.

But if Criterion is neither producing the supplements and artwork, nor overseeing the transfer, then this is not a Criterion Collection film. It's simply branding for money.

I believe this has occurred with certain other titles from Buena Vista, many of which suffer from poor transfers and that weird artifact where they go non-progressive at chapter stops. I'm speaking from memory here regarding discs I don't have, but this is my understanding.

I think Criterion should be very careful about this. Hagiographic EPKs are not film scholarship, much less Criterion level scholarship, and the potential for DNR'd hi-res releases and substandard SD releases are no small matters. Either would dilute the Criterion reputation for quality - something I believe has already occurred in at least several instances ("Life Aquatic"? "Chasing Amy"?).

[Narshty]

I assume Criterion were able to examine everything about the Benjamin Button set, including supplements, sound and image, and decided it was all up to scratch.

This situation really isn't any different to their version of Europa a few months ago where every single item on the disc, save the booklet essay, was taken from the R2 boxset which they originally had no part in.

[zedz]

This is such a straw man argument. Off the top of my head, over the last year, Criterion also had "no involvement" in developing the supplements for:

The Varda box-set
Death of a Cyclist
The Lovers
Trafic
Mon oncle Antoine
Patriotism
Europa
Dodes'kaden

- but I don't recall the same huffing and puffing greeting the announcement of those releases.

And how about waiting until we see the supplements on this disc before condemning them as "hagiographic EPKs"? I don't think any of Fincher's existing obsessive-compulsive DVD packages could be accurately characterised in this way. In general they're exhaustively (even exhaustingly) technical. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the extras are better than the film (it wouldn't be the first time).

[visuallyimpaired]

I am not as upset as one could be that Criterion is releasing "Benjamin Button". Having just watched "Zodiac", David Fincher's prior film, I must say I found his commentary interesting. Having not heard him before, his insights into why and how he choose to film in a particular way were quite interesting. I did take into consideration the fact that he was born in the Bay area at the time of the Zodiac murders and therefore the story itself meant something quite personal to him. His explanations as to why story lines have to be changed when translating a real event to a movie for dramatic purposes made sense to me and made me better understand the writing process that one goes through during the adaptation process.

However, having seen most of his films (except "Benjamin Button") I must say that I wish "Fight Club" had entered the Criterion Collection instead. I do keep a copy of "Sight and Sound's 360 Film Classics" for both amusement and reference and think they are correct when they keep their cut off date almost 10 years behind their most recent chronological addition "so that anything included has had time enough time to settle in one's mind". This seems like a fairly sane rule of thumb and would allow a film such as "Fight Club" to be included. However, this high minded ideal would seem quite impossible for a for-profit-DVD imprint such as Criterion.

I do think that Criterion does have to grab a few current Hollywood movies occasionally and not just to bolster their bottom line. Although Hollywood's output of films that should be included in the CC Collection is slim and tightly held by the companies that produce and distribute them that leaves slim pickin's for the gang at the wacky C. But to have to leave Hollywood completely out of the loop doesn't make sense either. It seems that even a rather mundane Hollywood addition with an interesting commentary and extras could make for an interesting essay explaining exactly how the current state of mainstream film-making has ended up focusing its time and money on a very narrow segment of the country's population.

After reading this entire thread I must say that the most disturbing argument in opposition to "Benjamin Button's" inclusion is the fact that Criterion is not producing any of the additional material. What I gather from the postsis that all the extras are produced by Fincher's people. That is a little too incestuous and leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth to think that Criterion is merely selling its brand.

In these trying times, though, I do suppose Criterion must make an easy buck here and there and who am I to complain about that as long as the primary outflow of films is relatively decent. I rest a little happier knowing that Criterion didn't have the chance to grab the (what I consider to be) sadistically pornographic "Seven".

I do look forward to Mr. Fincher's commentary. If he is as informative about the nuts and bolts of film making as he was on "Zodiac" I will look forward to hearing his spiel on this "iffy" movie.

[jedgeco]

I must say that I wish "Fight Club" had entered the Criterion Collection instead.

My love for Fight Club is second to none, but it's hard to see how, other than releasing it on Blu-ray, Criterion would top the existing disc.

What I gather from the postsis that all the extras are produced by Fincher's people. That is a little too incestuous and leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth to think that Criterion is merely selling its brand.

That is essentially what was done for the laserdisc of The Game, and yet the CC brand has muddled through the succeeding decade.

[HerrSchreck]

To be fair zedz, those releases aren't really apples to apples-- say in the case of Kurosawa's Dodes-ka-den CC translates the audio into subs & times the .srt file (or whatever they use) into the encode, Lee Kline or Palazzola (or some other proxy) probably sits in on the transfer over in Tokyo (or they'll fly a fine grain into the US... unless the Janus library already has the most up to date reels from the last photochemical restoration of the film) and then there's usually MTI'ing and further color correction done on the digital beta. Then the little booklet.

Contrasted against Button, where CC's involvement literally seems to be the slapping of the wacky C on the box.

For the record I think this may be CC's most embarassing release... but freaking out or panicking over the "implications for the future of the mission statement's integrity" (or whatever folks are saying) is silliness. I'm far more worried by the relatively steady clip of Very Good (but sub-masterwork) Color Films 1960's - present, which seem to be overtaking the great bevy of pre-1960 classics that constituted their bread & butter up to 2007. Something like Button, though an unabashedly blatant dalliance into whoredom, is probably going to be a kind of release occasionally necessary for all arthouse dvd distributors throughout this rotten economy, partcularly ones that release at the rate and quality level of CC... and want to survive while maintaining that release tempo.

But a little semiannual pragmatic whoredom does nothing to really squeeze the real meat and potatoes off of the release schedule. Tweaking the vintage of your sum-total releases, bit by bit as you go along into the ever-so-more populist/user-friendly, however...

[visuallyimpaired]

I know that in places I have worked "The Mission Statement" was posted prominently in every possible area not visible to the public yet that hardly meant it had any real meaning as far as the management's commitment to its customer. That said, I do hold Criterion to a higher standard than my humble work prisons.

However, in a broader sense, I look at Criterion as supplying me with a (sort of) history of the cinema, albeit one with many holes and obvious prejudices. Is it possible the company can accomplish its stated mission in a more obtuse way? By that I mean, can the entirety of its collection (not merely a single title alone, but the copious extras) include films that in and of themselves do not constitute the best film has to offer but do add to the general history of film itself?

I recently viewed "The Hustler" shortly after Paul Newman death and while I thoroughly enjoyed the film I would not rank the work on par with Renoir, Antonioni, or the other staples of Criterions (or for that matter most people's) pantheon of godlike directors. "The Hustler's" DVD had one of the most interesting comentaries (primarily the editor) and the film itself showed some of America's more popular actors in some very good roles (Newman, Gleason, Laurie, Scott).

Is it possible to look at Criterion as providing important eras of filmmaking (say the American Film of the early '60's) without having the best example of that type of film and still provide an important and enlightening look at that era (and thereby perhaps fulfilling their "mission" in a round-about way?)

I think it is possible and therefore am not as viemently opposed to lesser films like "Benjaman Button" entering the CC Collection. I do think it is an odd choice but wise economically. I am still waiting for "Red Desert" and "Senso" in Blu-ray, so it is obvious that my natural inclination tends towards inclusion, so long as those two titles are announced May 15th.

[zedz]

After reading this entire thread I must say that the most disturbing argument in opposition to "Benjamin Button's" inclusion is the fact that Criterion is not producing any of the additional material. What I gather from the posts is that all the extras are produced by Fincher's people.

Heaven forbid that a director should actually be involved in any meaningful way with a "Director Approved" Criterion release! Again, I don't recall the howls of outrage that greeted Two-Lane Blacktop or the Agnes Varda box-set. Or does this objection only apply to icky 'commercial' directors?

[bearcuborg]

The only problem I have with the whole situation is that Criterion has been pretty quiet about the inclusion of this film. I don't need a defense from the company, but they don't even seem to be proud of its association with TCCOBB. That might explain the lousy cover which they obviously did not design. Has there been some kind of blog post I missed from CC on the film?

[CSM126]

By your logic they must not be very proud of the large number of films they've released without a pizza party and a dance contest to celebrate the occasion. They don't put up banner ads saying "400 Blows rulz! LOL!" or "Agnes V - This shit iz hott!" do they? They just put the fucking things out there so you can buy them. They're, as you call it, "quiet" about most things.

[jaredsap]

The only problem I have with the whole situation is that Criterion has been pretty quiet about the inclusion of this film.

I guess you didn't attend the BENJAMIN BUTTON rally Peter Becker led in Washington last week? It was a stirring event. He actually wore a mask of himself as a child and chanted dialogue from the film.

[knives]

Are you guys still complaining about this? Just look at it this way you get to save thirty bucks and just a few months later get Repulsion.

[fiddlesticks]

What bugs me the most is that, by releasing this title, I'm being forced against my will to buy a film I'm not interested in.
........What's that? You mean I don't actually have to buy it?
Well, in that case, I'm still really cheesed because they're using precious resources on this twaddle rather than "classic" films I really want to see.
........Oh, it's being produced by someone else, and Criterion is just applying a logo to it?
Then that must be what I'm angry about!

[Mr Sausage]

Thread Closed.

If you haven't yet got your fill of bickering and namecalling, go here.

[zedz]

But that's what you might get had Criterion actually developed this release themselves, rather than merely branding it for money. For myself, the mere inclusion of this film doesn't debase the Collection; rather, it's Criterion's willingness to whore out the Wacky C for a release it had nothing whatsoever to do with developing. It is my very great hope that the principals of the Criterion Collection are even now engaged in an ongoing internal debate about the very grave potential of diluting or degrading the Criterion brand via the practice.

I think you're deluding yourself if you think Criterion would pump up any of their releases with supplements lovingly detailing why the film is a piece of shit. They can even find people with nice things to say about Solo con tu pareja, for heavens sake.

As I noted before, had Criterion been calling the shots, I'm sure the final release would have been practically identical (director commentary, director-planned supplements) - a bigger book maybe, including Fitzgerald's story.

[swo17]

nothing about the movie

Sigh. I guess I will have to wait 'til another day for zedz to regale TCCOBB with the Alexander Kluge treatment.

[domino harvey]

Sorry, but in addition to its worthiness in the collection, we're no longer allowed to discuss the Curious Case of Benjamin Button in the the Curious Case of Benjamin Button Thread