What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
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Re: 476 The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
All of the information I have, as a retailer, about this disc states it as a Paramount release. That said, I do find it odd that the Criterion list (on their website) skips disc 476. Anyone shed some light on this?
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
Well, I don't think there has been anything quite like this Ben Button deal, the only thing that I can think of that would be close would be Life Aquatic which contained a number of supplements produced by the Walt Disney Company, one being a series of ET-style promo clips called "starz on set" or something like that. It was also the only supplement that was released on the 1-disc version as well.
I don't think that we will ever hear the answer as to why Criterion signed up for this deal. I'm just trying to look on the bright side and see it as a building block in further establishing relationships with Fincher and Paramount Pictures. A more negative outlook would be that this was just a cash grab, I have heard from several insiders that the last 2 years hasn't been great for Criterion and that they've cut back in almost all areas of their business including laying off about 20% of their staff in the last year and a half. So in rough economic times, "selectively" whoring out their brand might possibly be used to offset losses elsewhere in the company.
I don't think that we will ever hear the answer as to why Criterion signed up for this deal. I'm just trying to look on the bright side and see it as a building block in further establishing relationships with Fincher and Paramount Pictures. A more negative outlook would be that this was just a cash grab, I have heard from several insiders that the last 2 years hasn't been great for Criterion and that they've cut back in almost all areas of their business including laying off about 20% of their staff in the last year and a half. So in rough economic times, "selectively" whoring out their brand might possibly be used to offset losses elsewhere in the company.
- cdnchris
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
In this way, yes. Some of the Buena Vista titles (at least Life Aquatic, Tenenbaums and Armageddon) were set to be, as I understand it, Criterion releases even before the movies were released theatrically. But Criterion actually worked on those titles and it was at the request of Michael Bay and Wes Anderson (EDIT: I forgot to mention that at the time of both Armageddon and Rushmore's releases, during DVDs early life, Disney didn't do lavish special editions, so I always figured both Bay and Anderson wanted special editions and Criterion were the ones to go to at the time.) Benjamin is unique in that it appears Fincher had his usual people make the DVD and then "licenced" (would that be the correct term?) the branding from Criterion.jaredsap wrote:So can you or a Criterion expert like Jeff confirm that I am correct this BENJAMIN BUTTON "branding"* deal represents a precedent for the company?cdnchris wrote:Criterion actually did the supplements for Chasing Amy, and did the transfer for the laserdisc, though I'm not sure about the transfer on the DVD.jaredsap wrote:Smith or his cronies are on record as saying Criterion had nothing to do with that set? They didn't even work on the transfer?
*In the words of David Prior himself.
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
I'd say it's more like they are interested in Criterion because of what it stands for and are afraid that releases like this will create a precedent that will result in the brand's 'integrity' being diluted or even lost in the future, which would by extension be a loss for film culture.Binker wrote:Yes, there's a reason, but I don't believe it has anything to do with distress over the idea that Criterion might suddenly stop releasing "great and neglected films" in favor of mainstream ones.Cde. wrote:Well, obviously we aren't. But my point is that there's a reason people grow attached to the brand and care about things like 'integrity'.
Alarmist? Yes, but that's the internet.
- TheRanchHand
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Re: 476 The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
I haven't seen the film, but may just pick this up in BD.
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
I was under the impression that Miramax frequently used to use the Criterion branding for plenty of their laserdiscs of stuff like The English Patient, Quentin Tarantino's Rolling Thunder releases and more that were fully produced by Miramax folk (not all Miramax titles were, incidentally - often they were worked on by Criterion in-house). It was hard for Criterion to function economically then; times are hard now and I'd be amazed if Criterion aren't feeling the pinch on some level. But for those who don't want to accept they're still a small independent business, there's not much to say.
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Re: 476 The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
That makes more than perfect sense since there are a few seconds in The Rock that is an almost match to one in Se7en.cdnchris wrote:Apparently Bay saw the Se7en laserdisc and was so impressed he called up Criterion while filming The Rock, wanting them to do a laser for it as well. They thought about it for a while and then eventually agreed to it.
- psufootball07
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
I wonder what Criterion will write on their own site about this film.
- cdnchris
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
That could very well be. I know they had a relationship with Miramax (and something somewhat similar with New Line) with special editions for their newer titles but I thought Criterion did the work themselves.Narshty wrote:I was under the impression that Miramax frequently used to use the Criterion branding for plenty of their laserdiscs of stuff like The English Patient, Quentin Tarantino's Rolling Thunder releases and more that were fully produced by Miramax folk (not all Miramax titles were, incidentally - often they were worked on by Criterion in-house). It was hard for Criterion to function economically then; times are hard now and I'd be amazed if Criterion aren't feeling the pinch on some level. But for those who don't want to accept they're still a small independent business, there's not much to say.
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
On Prior's message board he indicated that Fox wants to redo Fight Club for Blu/SD (with new features and new transfer) but that he and Fincher had to hold off as they were too busy with Button. I'm sure they'll ink the deal sooner rather than later. Depends on how important that wacky C is for Fincher, he may pull the same stunt with Fight Club. Actually from Jeff and a few other poster's comments, he seems nutty enough that he would try and twist Fox's arm in using Criterion's packaging/spine number. so seeing a "criterion" Fight Club in 6-8 months wouldn't surprise me.kaujot wrote:I wonder if there are any other deals like the Button one in the works. Studios not wanting to put in a lot of effort for a deluxe edition of a very recent film, so Criterion steps in, etc.
He also mentions that WB wants to redo se7en though Mark Rance produced that disk.
I find the whole thing kind of silly but I suppose if Fincher wants to do this will all his films, he certainly has the clout to do so...and I'm sure Criterion would oblige. I don't see it being too big of a problem with the studios since this seems to be kind of an invert of a typical licensing deal and the studios are getting all the money, with Criterion getting what is likely a very small kickback.
As for The Game he says " Fincher and I have never had a serious discussion about it, and no one has approached us. I have told him a couple of times that there is a lot of interest in a special edition. I'm sure it will come around eventually, but nothing firm at the moment." Sounds like Universal doesn't give a crap about this movie, which is too bad since it's the only one that actually needs a redux dvd.
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
I can't see Fight Club on Criterion. As I recall, the current DVD is the typical Fincher A-job.
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
Oh, the current 2-disc Fight Club is loaded but apparently Prior doesn't think it has enough special features or something.kaujot wrote:I can't see Fight Club on Criterion. As I recall, the current DVD is the typical Fincher A-job.
- arsonfilms
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
Well, obviously someone will be doing a BluRay version, but as far as studio-produced special editions go, the existing Fight Club DVD is pretty much the gold standard. The only improvement I can even conceive of would be all-new retrospective documentaries added to the existing package, which would barely be worth the upgrade anyway. The whole thing just seems very unlikely.ianungstad wrote:Oh, the current 2-disc Fight Club is loaded but apparently Prior doesn't think it has enough special features or something.
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
I know the studio wants to do it, but Fincher and I both have been so busy on Benjamin Button that I haven't had the time to really think about it. It's a little tricky; obviously more than just a straight port of the SD is in order, but nothing we've thought of so far seems appropriate. The usual retrospective "look back" would be a bit off the mark, you know? It was as complete as I could make it back then, and with the exception of a Dust Brothers commentary (hardly a 'killer app') I'm at a bit of a loss. -Prior
Well, I'm just going off his post. It sounds like he wants to do more supplements for the rerelease. Criterion or otherwise, I think any more features on Fight Club is totally unecessary..just pointing out that it could potentially be a Ben Button situation, it is a speculation thread after all.
Well, I'm just going off his post. It sounds like he wants to do more supplements for the rerelease. Criterion or otherwise, I think any more features on Fight Club is totally unecessary..just pointing out that it could potentially be a Ben Button situation, it is a speculation thread after all.
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
Well, an interesting bit of non-news. I recieved a private message from David Prior in response to a question I posted on his forum. He mentioned in his message to me that since it was sent in private, he would be more candid than he would if he had posted publically, so I'm not comfortable posting it on the forum here for that reason.
Anyways to sum up the only real noteworthy bit: He and Fincher have brought up the idea of bringing Fincher's other films over to the Criterion label but he doesn't know if that will actually happen, as in his words "Criterion has been difficult to work with". (I'm sure this is over him and Fincher not wanting the company to be involved with these releases)
Anyways, unless I'm reading the tone of his note to me wrong, he seemed rather rude about the whole situation with Criterion, which surprises me to be honest. I find Fincher's motivations very strange.
Do we really need a Criterion Fight Club?
Anyways to sum up the only real noteworthy bit: He and Fincher have brought up the idea of bringing Fincher's other films over to the Criterion label but he doesn't know if that will actually happen, as in his words "Criterion has been difficult to work with". (I'm sure this is over him and Fincher not wanting the company to be involved with these releases)
Anyways, unless I'm reading the tone of his note to me wrong, he seemed rather rude about the whole situation with Criterion, which surprises me to be honest. I find Fincher's motivations very strange.
Do we really need a Criterion Fight Club?
- Tribe
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
Thanks for posting this. I wonder why they deem Criterion "difficult." Perhaps Criterion was reluctant to just slap the wacky "C" and not be involved in the production?
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
Oh what the hell...here's his message to me:
Guy sounds like a jerk. As for Future projects, I think Criterion will do fine without Fight Club, The Game and Se7en in the collection.David Prior wrote:This disc was far bigger than anything Criterion has done in the past, and to be blunt, they would not have the resources to put it together. That's by their own admission. In this case their involvement is strictly about branding, really no different than SuperBit was. The Criterion name has a certain mystique about it (which they themselves are all too aware of) and that's what we're counting on to hopefullly drive a few more sales. For proof, look at your own question. But this release is exactly the same as it would have been had they not been involved.
As for future titles, I don't know at this point. I discussed a few possibilities with them early on, but we had some difficulties working with them and I'm not sure how that will impact future projects. We'll just have to see.
Last edited by ianungstad on Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Tribe
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
I seriously doubt this release would've been the biggest project Criterion had ever undertaken. Perhaps the quick turnaround...Criterion couldn't commit to release something that big in two months.
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
The lure of the wacky C.
It would be interesting to know exactly what Criterion are receiving for the use of their logo, if that is all this is. Perhaps it is a trade-off for Criterion being given access to some films in 'the vault'. Why not?
I'd prefer Criterion focus on films which aren't available in English editions, but I'm not the one footing the bills. Easy to bitch about your favourite film not getting 'the treatment', but let's be honest, how many great films have, and will be in the future.
My main complaint with Criterion is why is the exchange rate with the Australian dollar so poor?
Yes, I blame you, Mulvaney.
It would be interesting to know exactly what Criterion are receiving for the use of their logo, if that is all this is. Perhaps it is a trade-off for Criterion being given access to some films in 'the vault'. Why not?
I'd prefer Criterion focus on films which aren't available in English editions, but I'm not the one footing the bills. Easy to bitch about your favourite film not getting 'the treatment', but let's be honest, how many great films have, and will be in the future.
My main complaint with Criterion is why is the exchange rate with the Australian dollar so poor?
Yes, I blame you, Mulvaney.
- bdsweeney
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
Hear, hear!ryan11 wrote:My main complaint with Criterion is why is the exchange rate with the Australian dollar so poor?
(However, as commodity prices increase once more, it will get a bit better.)
Anyway, back on topic. I don't really understand why Paramount feel that they need to use the Criterion branding for the super-duper, whistles and bells release.
Surely just 'special edition' branding would suffice. It's not like Criterion is a well-known enough brand that it would persuade buyers to purchase it who might not otherwise do so.
Criterion will make a bit more money from this, so good on them. But I don't really understand what Paramount have to gain from it.
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation
Agreed. The nature of the film alone suggests to me that this isn't Criterion's biggest project. There was no need to locate and obtain quality source material for the main presentation, nor archival searches for supplemental material. If the Fincher crew wants to suck each other's dicks over the collection of features they put together, that's great, but it's hard to ignore the much more ambitious and more-difficult-to-assemble packages Criterion has delivered in the past.Tribe wrote:I seriously doubt this release would've been the biggest project Criterion had ever undertaken. Perhaps the quick turnaround...Criterion couldn't commit to release something that big in two months.
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
What's disturbing about this is that both parties -- Fincher and Prior, and Criterion -- agree that this release was arranged purely on the grounds of increased marketing potential. Nobody is claiming whatsoever that the mission statement was used to determine whether this release passes muster. I'm not saying this movie in particular doesn't satisfy the mission. That's a subjective determination and beside the point. What's really at issue here is that the mission is outright disregarded altogether when it comes to making release decisions...and for it now to be openly acknowledged, even? Just wow.
I know, I've been told by Jeff and Matt to stop focusing on the mission statement. Criterion's in the business of making money, not putting out great DVDs of great obscure movies, period. In essence, I need to forget the mission statement, it's a charade. But now that Criterion's assumed collection development integrity has taken a huge hit, it begs the question -- why does the Criterion brand that compelled this release in the first place maintain its footing in the marketplace? To think that certain consumers do treat the Criterion brand as some sort benchmark for the excellence in cinematic art when it's been revealed that, in practice, Criterion internally doesn't necessarily adhere to this credo by weighing potential releases against its mission is just
I know, I've been told by Jeff and Matt to stop focusing on the mission statement. Criterion's in the business of making money, not putting out great DVDs of great obscure movies, period. In essence, I need to forget the mission statement, it's a charade. But now that Criterion's assumed collection development integrity has taken a huge hit, it begs the question -- why does the Criterion brand that compelled this release in the first place maintain its footing in the marketplace? To think that certain consumers do treat the Criterion brand as some sort benchmark for the excellence in cinematic art when it's been revealed that, in practice, Criterion internally doesn't necessarily adhere to this credo by weighing potential releases against its mission is just
- Tribe
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
Where did Criterion admit this? I understand you believe that, and it's likely true (I'm referring the branding aspect of it all), but unless I've missed something I haven't seen Criterion make any of the admissions you rely on.Thomas J. wrote:What's disturbing about this is that both parties -- Fincher and Prior, and Criterion -- agree that this release was arranged purely on the grounds of increased marketing potential. Nobody is claiming whatsoever that the mission statement was used to determine whether this release passes muster. I'm not saying this movie in particular doesn't satisfy the mission. That's a subjective determination and beside the point. What's really at issue here is that the mission is outright disregarded altogether when it comes to making release decisions...and for it now to be openly acknowledged, even? Just wow.
- Jeff
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Re: What?!? Criterion is releasing Benjamin Button?!?
Just to clarify my position, I would actually say that Criterion, like all businesses which wish to long endure, is in the business of making money. They do this by putting out great DVDs of "important classic and contemporary films." I'm not sure where anybody would ever get the idea that "obscure" was ever part of the equation.Thomas J. wrote:I know, I've been told by Jeff and Matt to stop focusing on the mission statement. Criterion's in the business of making money, not putting out great DVDs of great obscure movies, period. In essence, I need to forget the mission statement, it's a charade.
But yes, it is absolutely my position that mission statements are nothing more than corporate marketing disguised as a creative writing exercise. In all honesty, before I read some of the messages here, I wasn't aware that anyone took them seriously. For a laugh, you could always check out the mission statements of tobacco, oil, and insurance companies.