49-50 Judex & Nuits rouges

Discuss releases by Eureka and Masters of Cinema and the films on them.
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Yojimbo
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#26 Post by Yojimbo » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:16 am

I've already placed my pre-order.
The only Franju I've seen to date is 'Les Yeux sans Visage', which sufficiently piqued my interest, together with available synopses, to blind buy this item.
'Masters of Cinema' have so consistently delighted me with the films they've introduced to me that I'm sure they won't fail me here, either.

Zobalob
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#27 Post by Zobalob » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:49 am

I've preordered too, I didn't know about this release till today....I've been hoping for these for a long time, so I'm overjoyed that they're finally coming out and not just one, but both!

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GringoTex
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#28 Post by GringoTex » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:02 am

If I didn't like Eyes Without a Face (I'm not really a horror movie fan), do these have anything else to offer?

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Ashirg
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#29 Post by Ashirg » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:03 pm

Eyes Without a Face isn't really a horror movie

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Yojimbo
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#30 Post by Yojimbo » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:15 pm

GringoTex wrote:If I didn't like Eyes Without a Face (I'm not really a horror movie fan), do these have anything else to offer?
I'm a horror fan so I may not be the best person to answer you, Tex, I'm banking on these films, especially Judex which has the more universally positive critical acceptance to have sufficient poetic and dreamlike images. my 'Foreign Film Guide' states: "the casting of a real magician in the title role was an inspired idea, but the true magic came from Fradetal's re-creation of the starkly contrasting blacks and whites of Feuillades surreal world"....."....with Berge in a cat suit and Pollock as the mysterious masked avenger bringing a dead dove back to life, Franju conjured up a lost era"

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GringoTex
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#31 Post by GringoTex » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:35 pm

Ashirg wrote:Eyes Without a Face isn't really a horror movie
Kudos for the helpful and insightful post.

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Michael
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#32 Post by Michael » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:00 pm

Ashirg wrote:Eyes Without a Face isn't really a horror movie
A woman stalking, drugging and killing young girls, stripping off their faces to keep replenishing the daughter's rotting face. But as the incredible montage stills show, her new face keeps getting rejected slowly.

Please continue to say that's not horror.

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Person
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#33 Post by Person » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:45 pm

From a certain point of view, every movie is a horror movie, a nightmare.

Narshty
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#34 Post by Narshty » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:17 pm

Oh, let's not go too far down that route. In any case, Eyes Without A Face is absolutely a horror movie with its deepest roots in the sheerest gothic tradition (even a unique movie can still be a genre film). Maybe it's best described as a fairy tale told in a sharply realistic style except perhaps when it tips over the edge - gloriously, I might add - in the final scenes.

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HerrSchreck
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#35 Post by HerrSchreck » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:50 pm

Not sure if this was noted, but much cooler cover art. Image May want to edit Narshtys original post..

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Yojimbo
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#36 Post by Yojimbo » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:41 pm

reminds me of Svankmajers "Conspirators Of Pleasure"

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Person
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#37 Post by Person » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:57 pm

Cinema should always deliver to the expectant viewer, the - unexpected.

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MichaelB
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#38 Post by MichaelB » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:02 am

Yojimbo wrote:reminds me of Svankmajers "Conspirators Of Pleasure"
Both images have their roots in French Surrealist art - the script of Conspirators actually names the chicken-creature 'Loplop', after Max Ernst.

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Yojimbo
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#39 Post by Yojimbo » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:36 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:reminds me of Svankmajers "Conspirators Of Pleasure"
Both images have their roots in French Surrealist art - the script of Conspirators actually names the chicken-creature 'Loplop', after Max Ernst.
interesting. I don't know anything of Svankmajers background or influences but given that he made one film based on 'Alice In Wonderland' I suppose his influences come from outside his national boundaries.

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MichaelB
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#40 Post by MichaelB » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:14 pm

Yojimbo wrote:I don't know anything of Svankmajers background or influences but given that he made one film based on 'Alice In Wonderland' I suppose his influences come from outside his national boundaries.
Actually, hardly any of Svankmajer's influences are Czech, other than his colleagues in the Czech and Slovak Surrealist Group and his mentor Emil Radok - I'd say the main ones are Giuseppe Arcimboldo, Lewis Carroll, Edgar Allan Poe, the Marquis de Sade, Luis Buñuel, Max Ernst (and the other original Surrealists), Georges Méliès and Federico Fellini, in that all these have been acknowledged and some (Arcimboldo, Carroll, Poe) are unmistakable anyway.

Perkins Cobb
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#41 Post by Perkins Cobb » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:10 pm

Regarding the Czech connection, Peter Hames asserts that Franju was also a major influence on the comic surrealism in Jiri Menzel's films, especially Closely Watched Trains and Capricious Summer. That seems a bit overstated to me but it's interesting food for thought.

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Yojimbo
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#42 Post by Yojimbo » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:44 pm

Perkins Cobb wrote:Regarding the Czech connection, Peter Hames asserts that Franju was also a major influence on the comic surrealism in Jiri Menzel's films, especially Closely Watched Trains and Capricious Summer. That seems a bit overstated to me but it's interesting food for thought.
I haven't seen 'Summer' but from what I remember of "Closely Watched Trains", that connection would surprise me, also

zone_resident
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#43 Post by zone_resident » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:08 am


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CSM126
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#44 Post by CSM126 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:53 am


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Yojimbo
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#45 Post by Yojimbo » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:25 am

I've just received notification that my order is on the way.
Should be here today or tomorrow

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Tommaso
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#46 Post by Tommaso » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:37 am

Have received the set now and started with "Judex", a film that I never forgot after seeing it on TV probably more than 20 years ago (and never again in between), with some of its images still having been completely vivid in my mind during all these years. So it was a joy to see it again and to be able to find out what precisely it was that fascinated me so way back then. Well, I still can't explain what it is precisely, but as has been variously pointed out, the film owes a lot to Cocteau, and probably what makes it so memorable is its completely dream-like logic and archetypal imagery. Sure, there is a clear narrative, but it has a lot of gaps in it; sometimes things seem to happen completely out-of-the-blue (how precisely did Favraux get out of his cell and the detective in?). I guess these things are clear to those who have seen the Feuillade version, but Franju plainly refuses to explain them. But this only heightens the air of mystery and enchantment, as does Franju's somewhat detached attitude to his characters. We learn little or nothing about who they are or what motivates them, but this also enhances the feeling of watching something ultimately inexplicable though rooted in reality.

The only letdown for me was Channing Pollock in the title role; he simply doesn't exude the charisma the role requires, and when he finally unmasks to Jacqueline and has blond hair for a moment, the comparison becomes unavoidable: the film simply cries out for this role to be played by Jean Marais (who played Fantomas a few years later, incidentally). Thankfully we get a very sexy Francine Bergé in an Irma-Vep-style costume and a very etherial Edith Scob (who also looks as if she came directly out of "La belle et la bete") instead. In short: wonderful, wonderful stuff indeed.

As the linked reviews above point out, the source materials are not in pristine shape; the audio is somewhat crackly and there's a little debris as well as very heavy grain occasionally, but the transfer itself is pretty flawless, as usual. Still, don't expect it to look as good as, say, "Silence de la mer" or "Rocco". The booklet is a very strong effort containing highly informative interviews with Franju. Still, what would I have given to get an audio commentary for that film. The on-screen interview with Champreux is great, but with only ten minutes it is far too short . That's something I always wonder about with many MoC discs: if you take the effort to interview someone as informed and engaging as Champreux or Tony Rayns, why not let them ramble on a little longer? In this case, I'm sure Champreux would have said (or even did say) a lot more of interest.

But don't let me appear to be more critical than I am: this is a marvellous package, of course, and now I'm looking very much forward to see "Nuits rouges".

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MichaelB
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#47 Post by MichaelB » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:01 am

Tommaso wrote:That's something I always wonder about with many MoC discs: if you take the effort to interview someone as informed and engaging as Champreux or Tony Rayns, why not let them ramble on a little longer?
I'm sure this isn't the only reason, but the BBFC charges by the minute...

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foggy eyes
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#48 Post by foggy eyes » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:26 am

Tommaso wrote:Sure, there is a clear narrative, but it has a lot of gaps in it; sometimes things seem to happen completely out-of-the-blue (how precisely did Favraux get out of his cell and the detective in?). I guess these things are clear to those who have seen the Feuillade version, but Franju plainly refuses to explain them. But this only heightens the air of mystery and enchantment, as does Franju's somewhat detached attitude to his characters. We learn little or nothing about who they are or what motivates them, but this also enhances the feeling of watching something ultimately inexplicable though rooted in reality.
Totally agree about Judex, Tommaso. I loved the way Franju not only continues but refines Feuillade's technique of setting mysterious characters and incident against a concrete (almost everyday) reality - everything feels both totally organic and eerily strange at the same time. As the action unfolds at such a crisp, leisurely pace, all emphasis is placed on individual shots and their texture and meaning rather than coherent or 'realistic' narrative progression (as Rivette eloquently points out in the booklet).

I haven't seen Feuillade's serial (missed out on the Flicker Alley DVD), but Franju's 'remake' strikes me as a very broad homage - the references to Fantômas and Les Vampires are impossible to miss, from Cocantin's reading of the original pulp novel of Fantômas (certainly the right place to look for ideas within this milieu), right down to the similarity between his youthful accomplice (who of course proves to be a much more proficient detective) and Mazamette's son in Les Vampires.

I thought Nuits rouges was tremendously disappointing, though - gaudy, overlit and ugly in terms of cinematography, and a real drag in terms of narrative. The elusive, enigmatic quality of Judex is lost within a laboured, convoluted structure that I found a real struggle to get through - hopefully others will feel differently.

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Tommaso
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#49 Post by Tommaso » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:46 am

foggy eyes wrote:I thought Nuits rouges was tremendously disappointing, though - gaudy, overlit and ugly in terms of cinematography, and a real drag in terms of narrative. The elusive, enigmatic quality of Judex is lost within a laboured, convoluted structure that I found a real struggle to get through - hopefully others will feel differently.
No, sadly I have to agree with you, at least as far as narrative is concerned. Unlike you I liked the look of the film, but everything else was a big letdown, especially in direct comparison with "Judex". The basic idea with the hunt for the Templar treasure sounds really interesting, though it might have worked far better in an Umberto Eco novel than in a 100 min. film. Nevertheless while watching this I almost constantly wondered what Rivette would have made from that plot and material. "Nuits rouges" had some good moments nevertheless, for instance the scene with the 'robot-men' attacking Paul. This curiously reminded me obliquely of the attack of the automatons in Bernard's "Chess Player", but I don't think that was Franju's intention.
Anyway, while I can see why MoC released this film together with "Judex" (it fits thematically), I wonder whether something more substantial from the early 60s wouldn't have been a better choice ("Thomas l'Imposteur"!!). But as some reviewer wrote: perhaps it's best to consider "Nuits rouges" as a freebee and only think of this release as an excellent edition of "Judex".

evillights
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#50 Post by evillights » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:01 pm

Tommaso wrote:Anyway, while I can see why MoC released this film together with "Judex" (it fits thematically), I wonder whether something more substantial from the early 60s wouldn't have been a better choice ("Thomas l'Imposteur"!!). But as some reviewer wrote: perhaps it's best to consider "Nuits rouges" as a freebee and only think of this release as an excellent edition of "Judex".
For me, Nuits rouges is the greater film, though of course they're both excellent. I would argue that not only does it have plenty of "substance," but that it's also the harsher nightmare. Toward which end, is the reason Franju shot it as he did.

craig.

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