54-55 / BD 37 Sanshō dayū & Gion bayashi
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
The (great) materials that formed the basis of the HD restoration did not include two Japanese text overlays on the two shots in question because the original producer wanted international territories to add their own language text. This has caused a number of problems for DVD...
1.) The new Japanese DVD has zero text at all. Nothing overlaid, and nothing on optional Japanese subtitles. Not good!
2.) Criterion opted to overlay the first shot with Japanese text, and to subtitle it in English -- but not to overlay anything on the second instance (at roughly, from memory, the 43 minute mark).
3.) MoC opted to not overlay anything at either point, but to optionally subtitle the two shots in English. We intended to mention this in the book, but forgot at the last minute -- sorry. Criterion mentioned it in their book.
1.) The new Japanese DVD has zero text at all. Nothing overlaid, and nothing on optional Japanese subtitles. Not good!
2.) Criterion opted to overlay the first shot with Japanese text, and to subtitle it in English -- but not to overlay anything on the second instance (at roughly, from memory, the 43 minute mark).
3.) MoC opted to not overlay anything at either point, but to optionally subtitle the two shots in English. We intended to mention this in the book, but forgot at the last minute -- sorry. Criterion mentioned it in their book.
- Michael Kerpan
- Spelling Bee Champeen
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
- Location: New England
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I really got worried when I saw those opening credits -- but these just made the first shot after the credits look all the better. This is the best I've seen the film look -- and it may be the first time I've ever seen this with English subtitles. (I've been dependent on the French DVD for a good while now -- but maybe I saw the o/p US video long ago).
I do wish that the set had more supplementary material on Gion bayashi, which is definitely a comparatively neglected film. Almost everything seems to be devoted to Sansho (whichadmittedly IS probably the film most buyers will be most interested in).
I do wish that the set had more supplementary material on Gion bayashi, which is definitely a comparatively neglected film. Almost everything seems to be devoted to Sansho (whichadmittedly IS probably the film most buyers will be most interested in).
Last edited by Michael Kerpan on Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:02 am
- Don Lope de Aguirre
- Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:39 pm
- Location: London
I too am of the MK school of thought in much preferring Gion to Sansho which -for me- lacked the emotional intensity of Oharu, Crucified Lovers, Late Chrysanthemums etc. In fairness, though, they are two very, very different films! Of the Mizoguchi films I have seen Sansho seems to me to belong more alongside Tales of the Taira Clan and Miyamoto Musashi. Has anyone seen the much-praised Sisters of Gion? How does this compare to Gion Bayashi both formally and in content?
- Michael Kerpan
- Spelling Bee Champeen
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
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I liked Miyamoto a lot more than Taira Clan. ;~}Don Lope de Aguirre wrote:I too am of the MK school of thought in much preferring Gion to Sansho which -for me- lacked the emotional intensity of Oharu, Crucified Lovers, Late Chrysanthemums etc. In fairness, though, they are two very, very different films! Of the Mizoguchi films I have seen Sansho seems to me to belong more alongside Tales of the Taira Clan and Miyamoto Musashi.
I think you are correct in linking Sansho and Ugetsu with Taira Clan (and I'd add Princess Yang Kwei Fei). Crucified Lovers, on the other hand, is a very different sort of film -- more like Oharu.
There are some general similarities -- but the films are quite different. Both are very good -- and I wouldn't assert one is "better" than the other.Has anyone seen the much-praised Sisters of Gion? How does this compare to Gion Bayashi both formally and in content?
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- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:23 pm
Well, i'm absolutely delighted with the dvd of Gion Bayashi. On first viewing some years back i'd thought it the weakest (or least great) i'd seen by Mizo, but now i can better appreciate its exquisite beauty. Hats off and thanks to Nick Wrigley and MOC. It's small in size, has no designs on grandeur or major setpieces, lacks the sublime landscapes and majestic scope of Sansho but taken on its own terms it's certainly a masterpiece.
p.s i should add that for me Sansho is the peak of cinema and of 20th century art.
p.s i should add that for me Sansho is the peak of cinema and of 20th century art.
- sidehacker
- Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:49 am
- Location: Bowling Green, Ohio
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peerpee wrote:I entirely disagree with the reviewer that GION BAYASHI is "Mizoguchi paying the bills". That's a dismal comment.
Perhaps the reviewer is referring to the financial issues that many of the characters face? In any case, I agree with you. I'd say Gion Bayashi is easily my favorite Mizoguchi so far though I've only seen four. I think it's to the film's strength that Mizoguchi is able to apply his usual technical skills to a narrative that is, shall we say, more believable?
- Sanjuro
- Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:37 am
- Location: Yokohama, Japan
Would like to jump in here and say that at first I was a little disappointed with the whole package and interview which seemed to relegate one of my favourite Mizoguchi films, Gion Bayashi as a 'lesser work', a freebie for those who purchased Sansho Dayu.
I'm sure this was not the original intention and of course, I'm extremely happy about a having an English subbed, MOC bookleted, DVD double-pack of two of my favourite films.
I can see this happening again with Oyu-sama (a truly wonderful film) and the more famous Ugetsu. Perhaps it would make more sense to offer Ugetsu as the 'freebie' since a lot of people will take one look and think 'Criterion version' whereas Oyu-sama isn't available subbed anywhere? (And yes, I'm aware of the whole Mr Region-locked Joe Public (but loves his MOC) argument for promoting the more famous of the two).
I'm sure this was not the original intention and of course, I'm extremely happy about a having an English subbed, MOC bookleted, DVD double-pack of two of my favourite films.
I can see this happening again with Oyu-sama (a truly wonderful film) and the more famous Ugetsu. Perhaps it would make more sense to offer Ugetsu as the 'freebie' since a lot of people will take one look and think 'Criterion version' whereas Oyu-sama isn't available subbed anywhere? (And yes, I'm aware of the whole Mr Region-locked Joe Public (but loves his MOC) argument for promoting the more famous of the two).
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- Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:11 pm
Re: 54-55 Gion bayashi and Sansho Dayu
Which one of these should be seen first? I've only seen Ugetsu by Kenji Mizoguchi, and I thought it was a masterpiece.
- reno dakota
- Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:30 am
Re: 54-55 Gion bayashi and Sansho Dayu
The two films are unrelated--different eras, different subject matter--so I don't think it matters which you see first. Sansho is a period-piece, like Ugetsu, while Gion bayashi is a post-war film about a geisha house. Apologies if I am stating the obvious.james wrote:Which one of these should be seen first? I've only seen Ugetsu by Kenji Mizoguchi, and I thought it was a masterpiece.
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- Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:11 pm
Re: 54-55 Gion bayashi and Sansho Dayu
No, it's okay. Sometimes people suggest things like: "it would be better to save this for last" or things like that. I'll probably go with Gion bayashi first just because I've heard it is the lesser of the two and it will probably help balance out my expectations for Sansho the Bailiff, which everyone seems to consider to be a masterpiece.
- Michael Kerpan
- Spelling Bee Champeen
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
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Re: 54-55 Gion bayashi and Sansho Dayu
At least one person here (namely me) prefers Gion bayashi to Sansho. ;~}
- fiddlesticks
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:19 pm
- Location: Borderlands
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: 54-55 Gion bayashi and Sansho Dayu
Dual format coming in April, per MoC Twitter.
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- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:32 pm
Re: BD 37 Sanshô dayû / Gion bayashi
Kudos to Eureka for finally releasing MIzoguchi in BD. I'm double dipping every film they release! Thanks!
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- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:34 pm
Re: BD 37 Sanshô dayû / Gion bayashi
Does anyone know if the Dual formats will include the same booklet as the DVDs? It seems way too big to be replicated..
- manicsounds
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: BD 37 Sanshô dayû / Gion bayashi
Most likely shrunken down in size a bit and reformatted. But I don't see why they wouldn't include the entire booklet.
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Re: BD 37 Sanshô dayû / Gion bayashi
The type was incredibly small in the originals. We had to lose something. We've decided to keep the original stories, and we'll be putting the essays online.
- manicsounds
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: BD 37 Sanshô dayû / Gion bayashi
Any update as to when/where the essays will be available?peerpee wrote:We had to lose something. We've decided to keep the original stories, and we'll be putting the essays online.
And incidentally, the transfers on all four of these films look phenomenal!