BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

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kinjitsu
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BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#1 Post by kinjitsu » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:21 pm

La signora senza camelie

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The third feature film by cinema master Michelangelo Antonioni, La signora senza camelie [The Lady Without Camelias], expanded the expressive palette of contemporary Italian movies, demonstrating that a personal vision could take an explicitly poetic tack; that “seriousness = neo-realism” was perhaps already turning into something of a truism; and that Antonioni would answer to no-one but himself.

It’s the story of a shopclerk named Clara (played by the captivating Lucia Bosè, also of Antonioni’s brilliant debut feature, Cronaca di un amore) who finds a chance casting in a small movie role develop into a full-blown career as screen-siren. Tension erupts when her husband can no longer tolerate watching her frivolous cinema escapades, and pushes her into a “serious, artistic” production of the life of Joan of Arc… whereupon she is castigated by the critical establishment.

A riveting ‘behind-the-scenes’ show-business drama, La signora senza camelie explores themes that would haunt its director from L’avventura through La notte and The Passenger — an individual’s tenuous hold on her identity, and the dangers inherent to performance… in life and on-screen. The Masters of Cinema Series is proud to present Antonioni’s masterful, highly personal La signora senza camelie for the first time in the UK — in a Dual Format release containing both Blu-ray and DVD versions of the film.

DUAL FORMAT RELEASE INCLUDING BLU-RAY AND DVD VERSIONS OF THE FILM

• Beautiful new transfer of the film in its original 1.37:1 aspect ratio, presented in a 1080p AVC encode on the Blu-ray
• Newly translated optional English subtitles
• A new and exclusive video introduction to the film with critic and teacher Gabe Klinger
• A new and exclusive video featuring Gabe Klinger discussing Antonioni in the context of the Italian production system of the 1950s
• The film’s original Italian theatrical trailer
• 44-page booklet containing newly translated vintage criticism about the film, an excerpt from an interview with Antonioni, and a lengthy 1953 back-and-forth about the film between Antonioni and critic Luigi Chiarini


Le amiche

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A key film of Antonioni’s middle-period, Le amiche [The Girlfriends] finds the Italian master expanding his palette in the realm of traditional narrative cinema by way of his powerhouse direction of an ensemble cast, while entrenching his devotion to expressing the emotional makeup of the modern woman.

Clelia (Eleonora Rossi-Drago) embarks from Rome to set up a fashion-salon in Torino. Shortly after arrival, she finds herself caught up in the (melo)dramas of a bourgeoise circle of acquaintances (including the iconic Valentina Cortese), and their attendant attempts at suicide, their class prejudices, and the romantic alliances that threaten to transform the social clique into an emotional tar-pit.

Le amiche represents the epitome of Antonioni’s ’50s period, and although it lays the groundwork for such ’60s breakthroughs as L’avventura and La notte, it proves itself no less brilliant than those later works. The Masters of Cinema Series is proud to present Le amiche for the first time in the UK — in a Dual Format release containing both Blu-ray and DVD versions of the film.

DUAL FORMAT RELEASE INCLUDING BLU-RAY AND DVD VERSIONS OF THE FILM

• Beautiful new transfer of the film in its recent restoration by Cineteca di Bologna, L’Immagine Ritrovata, and Martin Scorsese’s Film Foundation, in its original 1.37:1 aspect ratio, and presented in a 1080p AVC encode on the Blu-ray
• Newly translated optional English subtitles
• A new and exclusive video introduction to the film with critic and teacher Gabe Klinger
• A new and exclusive video featuring Gabe Klinger discussing the arc of Antonioni’s entire career
• 28-page booklet containing newly translated vintage critical pieces about the film, excerpts of interviews with Antonioni, and a 1956 letter written by Antonioni to Italo Calvino

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Tommaso
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#2 Post by Tommaso » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:40 am

I've just had a look at both these releases, and they look really stunning even only on standard dvd. The compression is very mildly visible in a few moments, but otherwise: simply fantastic in their clarity, perfect greyscale, wonderfully unmanipulated, filmlike look.

As to the films themselves: I didn't find the time yet to watch "Signora senza camelie" again, which I had seen only a few months ago, and which I found pretty much of a knock-out then and I don't think this will change. But at least I watched "Le amiche" again (my last viewing of the old Image disc had been some years ago). And I'm still not 100% convinced of the film. The film might be considered as a starting point for the typical Antonioni films of his major period thematically, but the slight problem I have with "Le amiche" is that the film in its depiction of the aimless floating around of its characters still relies very, very much on (fast) dialogue, which at least if you're not speaking Italian might cause some problems, because the need for following the subs might distract the attention a little from the already beautiful way Antonioni organises the characters in the frame and from some of the subtleties of his mise en scene in general. But even without this, I'd still say that the film is very much a work of transition that lacks a little in the concentration that "Il grido" will already have only two years later. Still, some of "Le amiche" is extremely memorable, especially the sequence at the beach, and the film features fantastic acting from the leading ladies all around. Not to be missed then, but I'd still recommend "Signora senza camelie" as the first to watch of these two.

Editionwise, the usual high MoC standard. I wasn't all too excited about the Gabe Klinger interviews/introduction. With their short running time, it would have been difficult to say something in depth about the two films anyway, but Klinger manages to repeat himself rather often on top of it. But thankfully the booklets deliver the goods, especially the one for "Le amiche" contains very insightful writings on the film itself. The "Signora" booket has an interesting exchange of opinions between Antonioni and critic Luigi Chiarini which doesn't pertain to the film exclusively but has implications on Antonioni's cinematic style in general. I found that a little hard to read because of the somewhat convoluted style, which I believe comes from the translation sticking a little too closely to the original Italian syntax; simply give this your full attention, I think it's worth it.

Two indispensible releases, then. Already a first highpoint of the year.

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MichaelB
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#3 Post by MichaelB » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:07 pm

Tommaso wrote:I've just had a look at both these releases, and they look really stunning even only on standard dvd. The compression is very mildly visible in a few moments, but otherwise: simply fantastic in their clarity, perfect greyscale, wonderfully unmanipulated, filmlike look.
The Blu-ray of La Signora is one of the best high-def black-and-white transfers I've seen to date - it looks almost lab-fresh. Terrific film, too: I knew nothing about it going in.

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swo17
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#4 Post by swo17 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:12 pm

I agree that La signora is great, and I think it's particularly fascinating in light of the fact that Antonioni would later make it his mission to keep the most beautiful woman in the world employed in high minded films.

isakborg
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#5 Post by isakborg » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:27 am

Even though I don't have an all-region BD player (an unhacked Oppo), I can still play any region DVD. So I am reduced to the DVD discs in these two offerings, though reduced is a misleading word. The Le Amiche in particular is absolutely beautiful. I've seen comments on transfer quality for a number of MOC SDs (e.g., Shoeshine) that led me to expect Criterion level quality, but have been disappointed. (By no means has this been the case with every MOC I have and I am NOT making a general statement here.) Perhaps the conversion from PAL to NTSC (I'm in the US) has something to do with it. But the Le Amiche is stunning (no more suffering through the old Image disc) and, if this is just the SD, the Blu-ray must be incredible. Does anyone know of plans or possibilities for a Region A release of both the Antonionis? Or, the best all region Blu-ray player that doesn't require user modification?

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ellipsis7
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#6 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:48 pm

Simply super Blus, both CAMELIE & LE AMICHE...

Philip French in The Observer on the pair of releases...

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MichaelB
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#7 Post by MichaelB » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:54 pm

isakborg wrote: I've seen comments on transfer quality for a number of MOC SDs (e.g., Shoeshine) that led me to expect Criterion level quality, but have been disappointed. (By no means has this been the case with every MOC I have and I am NOT making a general statement here.) Perhaps the conversion from PAL to NTSC (I'm in the US) has something to do with it.
I don't believe MoC has ever resorted to NTSC-PAL conversion: if the only available master is NTSC, that's the standard that they'll use in the final release.

At a very early stage of their existence they decided that there was an overwhelming likelihood that their customers would be NTSC compatible (which in fact applies to the vast majority of European DVD users), and apparently complaints have been in the low single figures.

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Tommaso
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#8 Post by Tommaso » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:06 pm

I think isakborg referred to the conversion that his player has to do because his TV isn't PAL-compatible, and that indeed means a loss of quality.
And the "Shoeshine" disc is easily on CC level if you don't have to convert it to NTSC.

isakborg
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#9 Post by isakborg » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Tommaso,

Indeed, that is what I meant, and I've been trying to get an answer on this for quite a while. Thanks.

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antnield
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#10 Post by antnield » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:16 pm

The Digital Fix on La signora senza camelie and Le amiche.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#11 Post by ellipsis7 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:49 am

Good review by Michael B in May's S&S, however I would add....

Part of the reason CAMELIE is relatively mature, in that it is the culmination of themes and ideas developed by MA through several projects, first 1948-1949's dramatic short L'AMOROSA MENZOGNA, LIES OF LOVE about the phenomenon of the 'fumetti', the hugely popular photoromance comic books and the double lives of the ordinary individuals who take time off to star in these photo strips, their adulation and the projection of reader's desires onto their imaged personas... On the back of the success of this Antonioni wrote the initial script for THE WHITE SHEIK, LO SCEICCO BANCO, the story of a new bride on her honeymoon visit to Rome, starstruck and besotted with an 'Arabian' star of 'fumetti', abandoning her new husband she seeks out the rather seedy Italian actor on the photo sets, and is eventually jolted back to reality... He optioned it to Carlo Ponti, with the promise of another project with the producer (only to materialise years later with BLOW UP), and Federico Fellini took over the directorial reins, adapting the script more towards his 'life viewed as circus' tropes, filiming it in 1951-1952... In 1953's LA SIGNORA SENZA CAMELIE note the stand in for Clara present at the villa has only acted in 'fumetti' before, emphasising the relationship between the two mediums...

Is a pity Calvino's initial letter of criticism could not have been included in the MoC booklet, it is included in the Einaudi edition of 'Tra donne sole', also I would not say that Pavese' novel is spare compared to the film script, although a comparison is worthy, some of the major changes being in the structure of the story, also being affected by the ageing the character of Clelia in the film LE AMICHE...

Have to say, while they are entertaining, I was not overly impressed by Gabe Klinger's pieces, maybe I'm just too spoilt by the quality of the likes of Tag Gallagher's excellent visual essays...

As I said before these are wonderful packages from MoC, Michael B comments on the beauty of CAMELIE, and I can confirm that the restored LE AMICHE is a quantum leap forward from the old Image DVD, the MoC being also a thing of wonder... Worth mentioning too is the superb subtitling, with lines of crowd dialogue scrupulously rendered alongside the main exchanges....

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eerik
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#12 Post by eerik » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:47 am

Question regarding the rating of La signora senza camelie. Is kissing considered as mild sex in the UK or did I blink my eyes too much and missed something?

peerpee
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#13 Post by peerpee » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:00 am

The BBFC's advice can be really headscratching. I presume they felt the clinch on the bed near the start was very erotic.

re: the subs. Tag helped us polish the subs on both titles but didn't want to receive credit, as he came in towards the end, but a lot of the neat touches are his work.

Nothing
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#14 Post by Nothing » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:57 am

Truly great work, Nick!

Now bring on La Notte BD + ....? \:D/

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tajmahal
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#15 Post by tajmahal » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:32 am

peerpee wrote:The BBFC's advice can be really headscratching. I presume they felt the clinch on the bed near the start was very erotic.

re: the subs. Tag helped us polish the subs on both titles but didn't want to receive credit, as he came in towards the end, but a lot of the neat touches are his work.
It is these candid, revealing comments that illustrate why MOC have such a small, but strong core following. Releasing classic, sometimes little known films with the care and attention of a museum curator, with the (quite often) realistic hope of only a modest return of investment, is so very worthy of praise. Well done to the MoC team.

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Der Spieler
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#16 Post by Der Spieler » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:05 pm

Tommaso wrote:I think isakborg referred to the conversion that his player has to do because his TV isn't PAL-compatible, and that indeed means a loss of quality.
I didn't know that. I never noticed any loss of quality when converting PAL to NTSC.

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MichaelB
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Re: 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#17 Post by MichaelB » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:59 pm

Der Spieler wrote:
Tommaso wrote:I think isakborg referred to the conversion that his player has to do because his TV isn't PAL-compatible, and that indeed means a loss of quality.
I didn't know that. I never noticed any loss of quality when converting PAL to NTSC.
Since converting from PAL to NTSC inevitably involves reducing the vertical resolution from 576 to 480 (since the NTSC video standard can't cope with anything better), quality loss is inevitable.

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Der Spieler
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#18 Post by Der Spieler » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:37 pm

It must be subtle though since I never noticed any serious difference. Is it possible that some American TVs are Pal-capable without advertising it?

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ellipsis7
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#19 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:42 pm

Nice original Italian (1955) promo brochure/press book cover for LE AMICHE... Sums up the essence...

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antnield
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#20 Post by antnield » Thu May 05, 2011 6:22 am

John Wyver's Illuminations blog: "Think of this post as simply a 'thank you' note to Masters of Cinema."

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knives
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#21 Post by knives » Fri May 27, 2011 10:26 pm

I, unlike everyone else in the thread it seems, have never really been fond of Antonioni so I picked up La Signora senza Camelie with a lot of trepidation and exclusively based on the strength of the cover art. That said I am very glad I didn't let me bias win out both because this is an amazingly gorgeous DVD being better presented than any other Antonioni I've seen and because it'sn a really good film. I won't go so far as great simply because it didn't hit me in the way a great film will, but I am enthusiastic for anyone who can get that feeling.

I have no clue as to why this film clicked when the others haven't since this movie have all of the expected features of Antonioni. Same sort of characters and same sort of cinematography. I would like to reduce it to a manner of compassion, but that would be denying him so much that he does give. Those other films do care about the characters, but maybe the difference that I'm picking up here is that he also is affected by his character's plight. It's Clara's lack of strength that puts her into this tight situation and she tries to do the best for everybody while keeping what identity she has left. Her adventure here has real stakes that the movie seems terrified over while the actual adventure film treats the characters' worries over their affair in a darker light.

An other thing that this film is different with is that the one very notable trait of the '60s work for me is that they are deeply concerned with the times and have an antiquated feel as a result. This isn't to say that being antiquated is a bad thing, in fact it's the only compelling aspect of Blowup for me, but the concerns here don't force me into an anthropological situation of viewing and allows me to, rather egotistically, apply the situation to myself and give all of the characters my empathy.

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Don Lope de Aguirre
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#22 Post by Don Lope de Aguirre » Sun May 29, 2011 2:14 pm

Saw Le Amiche on blu last night (with a nice bottle of wine). What an experience!!

ellipsis7 (and others) I wondered what you made of the new subtitles compared to the (R1) Kino?

Le Amiche is a film I have always adored and I have seen it several times on DVD. I 'knew' the film from the translation on that DVD. There were quite a few points in the new MOC translation where I felt some of the colloquial flavour had been removed from the dialogue. Off head: 'She went on a bender' becomes 'She drank too much', and 'Most designers dress like tramps' becomes 'Most designers dress badly'.

This may seem like a facile point but it can be the difference between a joke living or dying... (I remember, for example, seeing two different translations of L'Avventura in which a woman spurns a sexual advance with the line: 'there's no spark' which becomes 'this is not an idyll...' To me, the former is amusing, the latter just plain odd...)

As I do not speak Italian I am not in a position to say which is better... I suppose I am asking: What makes an improved subtitle translation (and by implication, why bother...)? Does this mean 'more complete...'?

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MichaelB
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#23 Post by MichaelB » Sun May 29, 2011 2:35 pm

If you tell me where these lines are, I'll have a listen to the original Italian.

As for your final question, it depends on the individual film being (re)subtitled. For instance, there was nothing essentially wrong with the subtitles that the BBC put on their broadcast of Jan Němec's The Party and the Guests in terms of accuracy, but they didn't translate much of the more casual chit-chat - which, as I found out when I saw the Second Run DVD and its more complete translation, made quite a difference.

On the other hand, Jerzy Skolimowski's Barrier, a film on Second Run's upcoming slate, badly needs a top-to-bottom retranslation, as the original dialogue is crammed with literary allusions, puns and similar witticisms that simply haven't been adequately rendered in English before. (Hopefully Skolimowski himself, who now speaks infinitely better English than he did when the subtitles were originally translated back in the 1960s, will be on hand to assist).

Other cases come down to often quite subtle preferences by individual translators - there was quite an interesting discussion about translating Lubitsch intertitles here.

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ellipsis7
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#24 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun May 29, 2011 4:32 pm

hi Don Lope, I was happy with the subs on MoC's LE AMICHE, slightly more of the dialogue being translated and more sharply I feel than on the acceptable Image disc... Subtitles are never absolutist, it's parlance rather than perfect, and sentences have to be hung on screen for enough time to be read, rather than transmitting every word, i.e. the sense to be conveyed is paramount... Humour is the most difficult, even staying in one language, a joke can succeed and then fail in retelling... I have to confess that in the case of LE AMICHE, I am working with the original source novel (in Italian), two published English translations of the same, the published Italian film script, and an Italian dialogue list of the film, and an English translation of a script draft (from BFI Special Collections), as well as my own hearing of the dialogue and my own translations of that... In this context I found the MoC subs still reveal new nuances and fresh subtleties, so are IMHO most welcome indeed... Phrases like 'went on a bender' and 'dress like tramps', while having some artistic licence and contemporary resonance, really cannot be validified in the mainly upper middle class dialogue of novel and film... I'd have to check the exact lines but 'this is not an idyll' seems more fitting than 'there's no spark' in the parlance of the 1950's. It's really a question of (and an eternal debate), should you translate and modernise voguish dialogue of a past time into the trendy terms of the present? My preference is 'no', let the actual original words speak for themselves, as much as translation can allow...

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Don Lope de Aguirre
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Re: BD 17-18 La signora senza camelie & Le amiche

#25 Post by Don Lope de Aguirre » Mon May 30, 2011 7:12 pm

Thanks for the link/replies!

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