92 / BD 9 M

Discuss releases by Eureka and Masters of Cinema and the films on them.
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triodelover
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: The hills of East Tennessee

Re: 92/9 M

#76 Post by triodelover » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:05 pm

peerpee wrote:I'm just extremely grateful to have a region-free BD player so I can play their BDs!
And I'm grateful to be region-free so I can play yours (and MichaelB's).

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manicsounds
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: 92/9 M

#77 Post by manicsounds » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:18 am

OK, so I got my copy, and what's with the audio signal? I've never encountered this before.

Whenever I watch something in the 2.0 Mono format, I have my receiver make it so the Left and Right mixes it into the center speaker. The MoC "M" BD won't let me do that. Is this meant to be this way?

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manicsounds
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
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Re: 92/9 M

#78 Post by manicsounds » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:08 am

Ignore the last post, I eventually got it working.

Anyway, watching the English language version now. Glad that Criterion and MoC decided to include this on the disc, as bad as it may be, in both quality, redundancy, dubbing and editing.

These kinds of films, alternate versions lost for many years are such a curiousity that people want to see them and crave the differences. Obviously, after watching it, meh, right? But it was worth checking out to see how much a movie can change with little techniques here and there. Kalat and Rosenbaum also comment on the Metropolis disc how redundant it would be to compile every single version ever edited of Metropolis for an ultimate edition, like they did with Blade Runner, but there just are movies where it is better only for curiousity's sake.

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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
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Re: 92/9 M

#79 Post by TMDaines » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:29 pm

Maybe I've missed someone mentioning this somewhere but even though the M Blu-ray is locked, the DVDs are both region free.

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MichaelB
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Re: 92/9 M

#80 Post by MichaelB » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:05 am

manicsounds wrote:These kinds of films, alternate versions lost for many years are such a curiousity that people want to see them and crave the differences. Obviously, after watching it, meh, right? But it was worth checking out to see how much a movie can change with little techniques here and there. Kalat and Rosenbaum also comment on the Metropolis disc how redundant it would be to compile every single version ever edited of Metropolis for an ultimate edition, like they did with Blade Runner, but there just are movies where it is better only for curiousity's sake.
A former colleague of mine at the BFI is researching alternate language versions from the early 1930s, when the practice was most prevalent prior to dubbing/subtitling taking over, and some of them can be fascinatingly different. The Spanish Dracula is in some ways superior to the Tod Browning one (the Spanish crew had the advantage of seeing what the US crew had shot prior to duplicating their efforts on the same sets overnight), and I hear that while the English and German versions of E.A. Dupont's Atlantic are very similar indeed, the French version is a fair bit livelier.

Jonathan S
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Re: 92/9 M

#81 Post by Jonathan S » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:37 am

I hope your colleague will include in his research the surviving Spanish/French/German versions of some of Laurel & Hardy's early talkies. The Spanish versions especially are very different, sometimes extended from short to feature length. In Politiquerías they are upstaged by a spectacular regurgitation act, involving nuts, water and kerosene!

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MichaelB
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Re: 92/9 M

#82 Post by MichaelB » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:40 am

I think the research is specifically based on the holdings of the BFI National Archive, so it depends on what's there - and it's obviously strongly weighted towards British films or co-productions.

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 92/9 M

#83 Post by Tommaso » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:21 am

My favourite example for how good these alternate versions occasionally could be is "Sunshine Susie" (1931) by Victor Saville, which is the alternate language version of Wilhelm Thiele's musical comedy "Die Privatsekretärin", which is considered lost in its German original. "Sunshine Susie", unlike many other alternate versions, was a big success in the UK, probably because they really changed some of the original script to make the film look more like a genuine British film; some hilarious moments don't seem to have been in the German version at all. The film made Renate Müller a star in England, and features an ultra-funny performance by Jack Hulbert. Great songs, too.

I really wish for the BFI to unearth this film (I think it was once available on VHS) and bring it to DVD. A true jewel.

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MichaelB
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Re: 92/9 M

#84 Post by MichaelB » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:28 am

I may be misremembering this, but I seem to recall him including a clip from Sunshine Susie in his presentation. (We regularly had to give presentations of our ongoing research to our colleagues, which was one of my favourite parts of the job).

Or if it wasn't that, it was something very very similar - I certainly recall him discussing the changes made from a German musical comedy to suit British audiences..

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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: 92/9 M

#85 Post by TMDaines » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:24 am

MichaelB wrote:
manicsounds wrote:These kinds of films, alternate versions lost for many years are such a curiousity that people want to see them and crave the differences. Obviously, after watching it, meh, right? But it was worth checking out to see how much a movie can change with little techniques here and there. Kalat and Rosenbaum also comment on the Metropolis disc how redundant it would be to compile every single version ever edited of Metropolis for an ultimate edition, like they did with Blade Runner, but there just are movies where it is better only for curiousity's sake.
A former colleague of mine at the BFI is researching alternate language versions from the early 1930s, when the practice was most prevalent prior to dubbing/subtitling taking over, and some of them can be fascinatingly different. The Spanish Dracula is in some ways superior to the Tod Browning one (the Spanish crew had the advantage of seeing what the US crew had shot prior to duplicating their efforts on the same sets overnight), and I hear that while the English and German versions of E.A. Dupont's Atlantic are very similar indeed, the French version is a fair bit livelier.
I swear the BBC Radio 4 Film Programme did a small piece on this Spanish version. It was a good six months to a year ago though.

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MichaelB
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Re: 92/9 M

#86 Post by MichaelB » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:10 am

TMDaines wrote:I swear the BBC Radio 4 Film Programme did a small piece on this Spanish version. It was a good six months to a year ago though.
They probably did - it's one of the most famous examples. My now ancient DVD includes both versions.

In fact, lead actress Lupita Tovar turned 100 last year - was that the reason?

(She's still alive at 101!)

Jonathan S
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Re: 92/9 M

#87 Post by Jonathan S » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:55 am

MichaelB wrote:In fact, lead actress Lupita Tovar turned 100 last year - was that the reason?
(She's still alive at 101!)
And bit player (only in the domestic version?) Carla Laemmle is 102... do Dracula actresses live forever!?

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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 92/9 M

#88 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:58 pm

Jonathan S wrote:And bit player (only in the domestic version?) Carla Laemmle is 102... do Dracula actresses live forever!?
Do this mean that Sadie Frost is also going to outlive us all?
MichaelB wrote:and I hear that while the English and German versions of E.A. Dupont's Atlantic are very similar indeed, the French version is a fair bit livelier.
Is that the one that was excerpted in the Kevin Brownlow's Cinema Europe documentary, in which there were:
SpoilerShow
two endings. The French one showing the couple dragged from the water after the ship sinks, while the more downbeat German one has the couple lose their grasp of the rope and drown?

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MichaelB
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Re: 92/9 M

#89 Post by MichaelB » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:00 pm

colinr0380 wrote:Is that the one that was excerpted in the Kevin Brownlow's Cinema Europe documentary, in which there were:
SpoilerShow
two endings. The French one showing the couple dragged from the water after the ship sinks, while the more downbeat German one has the couple lose their grasp of the rope and drown?
Almost certainly.

In fact, I must rewatch Cinema Europe one of these days, particularly the British episode - my knowledge of British silent cinema is infinitely more extensive now than it was when I last watched it a decade ago, and I'll have seen a fair number of the films he excerpts (and, if I remember rightly, slags off).

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