278 L'eclisse

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skuhn8
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#76 Post by skuhn8 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:24 pm

Yeah, when it comes down to it--and I've stated this elsewhere on the various threads dedicated commentaries and thrashing Bogdanovitch and Schickel--I'll take a scripted commentary containing a couple "kind of"s over the lazy blatherings of Schickel any day. For me a DVD with only a Schickel commentary and a theatrical trailer constitutes a barebones-DVD-with-trailer. I think Pena's commentary was a fine listen. Not the best, but I've heard so many shit-ass commentaries (i.e. aforementioned Bogd. and RSchick and throw in Peter Brunette's idiocy on Blow-Up) that I can't imagine counting "kind of"'s and "more"s.

My 1 1/2 cents

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SHOCKMASTER
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#77 Post by SHOCKMASTER » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:29 pm

Does anybody know what song is featured in the opening credits of this film and where I might find it?

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ellipsis7
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#78 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:45 pm

The opening seems to be a crossfade between several cues...

While the vocal version is not on it, 4 cues from L'Eclisse (along with ones from L'Avventura, Deserto Rosso & Il Grido) are on this disc (available from Amazon...

Tracks are

Eclisse Twist (M.antonioni)
Eclisse Slow
Passeggiata
Eclisse Twist (M. Antonioni)

Giovanni Fusco is of course his longtime musical collaborator...

Image
Last edited by ellipsis7 on Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kinjitsu
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#79 Post by kinjitsu » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:05 pm

Exactly!

Le Musiche di Fusco: I Film di Antonioni.

A terrific disc! It's very reasonably priced at the CAM website, so you might want to check out the rest of their catalog to see if anything else interests you and order it directly from them.

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

#80 Post by Dylan » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:25 pm

ellipses and kinjitsu,

Thanks for the tip, I just ordered the Fusco disc, sounds wonderful. I love his dance music, and the last scene from "L' Avventura" is one of the greatest (and most frighteningly) scored scenes in all of cinema. Should be a great listen.

I've been buying CAM CDs for years; a lot of priceless music is on that label if you like (or love) Italian composers.

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SHOCKMASTER
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#81 Post by SHOCKMASTER » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:38 pm

Thanks a bunch guys. I can always count on this forum to provide me with any information needed.

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chaddoli
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#82 Post by chaddoli » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:48 am

I made a short film entitled Dead and Lovely that was inspired by L'Eclisse. The film will screen in New York City in Fall 2008.

Check out the trailer here:

Here are some stills. I shot it with the Panasonic HVX and the Brevis35 with Nikon lenses.
Last edited by chaddoli on Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Awesome Welles
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#83 Post by Awesome Welles » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:56 am

Some very nice work chaddoli, very reminiscent of L'Eclisse. Did you watch it every night after shooting? :wink:

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bkimball
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#84 Post by bkimball » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:21 pm

What a wonderful masterpiece this is! I watched this twice in the same day as to really try to wrap my head around Antonioni's brilliant compositions. I disagree with previous posts about Richard Pena's commentary being whiny or not professional. The commentary supplemented many of my own thoughts and solidified some of the themes I had picked out in the first go around.

Because of the brilliance of this film, I would like to go revisit L'avventura and The Passenger which I felt a sense of tediousness instead of disconnection. Thus, goes the viewer's relationship with Antonioni.....

Apart from the mildly annoying flicker, this is one of the best transfers I've seen on DVD. This is worthy of a purchase, but I would be even happier if they did a transfer that fixes the flickering issue and put it on Blu-ray. I rented this through Netflix, so I only received the first disc. As an appreciator of this film, would it be worth my time to rent the second disc of extras?

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Tommaso
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#85 Post by Tommaso » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:54 pm

Definitely. "The Eye that changed cinema" is one of the more thorough documentaries on Antonioni (much better than the one on the "L'Avventura"-disc), and the additional interview on 'Antonioni and Landscape' is also very informative. Though rather than renting, I'd seriously advice purchasing the set. You'll come back and back to it again,anyway. One of CC's most essential discs.

Now hurry on to the BFI "Red Desert".

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bkimball
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#86 Post by bkimball » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:24 pm

Tommaso wrote:Definitely. "The Eye that changed cinema" is one of the more thorough documentaries on Antonioni (much better than the one on the "L'Avventura"-disc), and the additional interview on 'Antonioni and Landscape' is also very informative. Though rather than renting, I'd seriously advice purchasing the set. You'll come back and back to it again,anyway. One of CC's most essential discs.

Now hurry on to the BFI "Red Desert".
Thank you for the recommendations. After Christmas, I'll take the plunge on adding Antonioni to my library. Red Desert definitely has me interested if not for the sole fact that it seems it was his first color film.

piano player
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#87 Post by piano player » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:32 pm

david hare wrote:I found the flicker or strobing so distracting initially I put off watching the movie for two weeks. Finally after a stiff drink, I did manage a proper viewing last week (twice). As already noted it looks worst in dark scenes, not so bad in brighter scenes and even occasionally diasppears. I guess - Yes - we have to live with it. A terrible shame as the print in all other respects is absolutely stunning.
I am wondering if it is a fault in the film elements, or is an electronically induced artefact (if so surely this should have been picked up and dealt with in the datacine mastering/transfer process.) As for complaining to Mulvaney I gave that up after complaining to him about AMARCORD in 1999 not being anamorphic and getting a VERY high handed reply that the company was not seriously interested in something as "unreliable" or "untested" as anamorphic compression at that time. Good luck Hulot!
I found the flicker/strobe effect very distracting at first, but once I got involved with the movie I didn't even notice it. All in all a fantastic print, so good job Criterion.

J.Maki
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#88 Post by J.Maki » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:30 am

Can I ask everyone's views on the Monica Vitti 'blacking up' scene in this movie. No-one seems to have brought it up.

No matter how hard I try I cannot view the scene without wincing and being disappointed that someone as intelligent as Antonioni even shot, let alone included, the scene in the film.

Is the scene simply commentating on the colonial attitude of white people and it just seems ill advised in our more racially tolerant times?
I think Vitti has done some comedy, so maybe it was meant to be funny?
Maybe I don't know enough (anything) about racial attitudes in Italian society in the early 60's?
The commentary glosses over the scene with a flimsy unconvincing explanation which does not help much.

Perhaps I am just being over sensitive and/or missing the whole point of the scene...

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skuhn8
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#89 Post by skuhn8 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:58 am

I rewatched this last week. I think you're being oversensitive and getting stuck on the surface. It's a girls night in where they're playing around with the eclectic props at hand. Sure we frown upon 'blackface' but I don't believe the characters' intention was to make a statement or to 'go deep' into the matter. What should be of more concern (as I believe it was for Antonioni) was the actual 'colonial' in the room. It doesn't take too much scratching under the surface to see there we have a dangerous attitude prevalent in such colonies. But all the while I was trying to see if her shutting down the fooling about was out of a feeling of revulsion at their disrespect shown or simply revulsion at seeing a 'civilized white going native'.

I know it isn't easy, but I believe an appreciation for classic cinema is benefited somewhat by turning off/down the political correctness meter.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#90 Post by ellipsis7 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:07 am

I think the scene is a contemporaneous comment and critique of the European colonialists (maybe white trash then , Eurotrash now) returning to Rome, displaying signs of their richesse (fruits of their exploitation), trophies and souvenirs of African culture, a place which they now regard as 'home (where they have significant status and property), a 'great country' etc... Monica Vitti's blacking up, with stage makeup, donning authentic artifacts - as a native African - is meant to feel uncomfortable and hit a false note, undermining the Western upper middle class milieu in which her friend is trying to recontextualise and sanitise the African culture, revealing a darker subtext to their girls night out... The reality of 1960s immigration from Africa to Europe, and integration into society, not as slaves or servants but as equals, is pointedly highlighted by the presence of the two African men sitting outside the flying club....

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Murdoch
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#91 Post by Murdoch » Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:08 pm

skuhn8 wrote:I rewatched this last week. I think you're being oversensitive and getting stuck on the surface. It's a girls night in where they're playing around with the eclectic props at hand. Sure we frown upon 'blackface' but I don't believe the characters' intention was to make a statement or to 'go deep' into the matter. What should be of more concern (as I believe it was for Antonioni) was the actual 'colonial' in the room. It doesn't take too much scratching under the surface to see there we have a dangerous attitude prevalent in such colonies. But all the while I was trying to see if her shutting down the fooling about was out of a feeling of revulsion at their disrespect shown or simply revulsion at seeing a 'civilized white going native'.
I definitely see it as her revulsion to Vitti "going native".

What's important to acknowledge in this scene is Vitti is very at ease throughout and actually enjoying herself, it's one of the few scenes in the film where Vitti seems genuinely happy. I saw it as her breaking free from the constraints of the Italian upper class, freeing herself through this foreign land that remains a mystery to her. Her friend, on the other hand, is repulsed because 'that's not how civilized people act.'

This is off-topic, but this scene reminds me of a short story by Jean Rhys called "Pioneers, Oh Pioneers" in which a French colonist "goes native" much to the revulsion of the other French settlers. He marries a native, rejects the propriety of Euro-culture and lives mostly isolated from the other colonists. The story highlights the imperialists need to "own" a place but never actually engage with the culture, only try to alter it to match their own.

Vitti's friend - can't remember her name - who has all the African pictures and items is very imperialist in the film, she owns all these "souvenirs" from her trip abroad hanging them on her walls like trophies, she shoots her rifle out her window just to show it off - which made me think that she's a hunter and probably used the colony as her own playground for hunting game, although it's been some time since I've seen the film and I don't remember if this is touched upon. There's a very distinct divide for her between the foreignness of African culture and the "respectable, proper" Italian culture.

I see the scene as a portrayal of the colonizer using the colony as a form of escapism, Vitti sees Africa as a novelty and attempts to playfully replicate what she perceives as African culture despite having never actually been there. She uses her vision of Africa in order to release herself from the society she feels confined by.

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colinr0380
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#92 Post by colinr0380 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:22 pm

I agree Murdoch with this being one of the scenes where Vitti’s character Vittoria manages to lose herself for a moment in abandon at being another person, in another world with other values, though I would disagree about Marta being totally ‘imperialist’ in her attitudes. I feel this is quite a complex and fascinating scene if you can look beyond the superficially shocking image of our lead character blacking up and performing an African dance.

Marta does not just have these pictures and mementos of her ‘trips’ abroad - she was obviously raised in Kenya herself from her comments about her father still having a farm there and making the effort to return to have her son in the hospital there “because it’s home”. She also does not shoot the rifle out of the window on a whim but when her urban Italian friend Vittoria asks her to shoot the balloon while she and Piero watch.

There is a colonialist aspect to be noted from Marta, as there is the sense of feeling in her comments and collection of photographs and mementos that she ‘appreciates’ the environment more than the black people, who being natives of the land with little opportunity to see the outside world, know nothing different.

She is obviously homesick for Kenya but appears to be in Italy because she fears the situation has become unstable as black people start wanting rights to the land and to hold positions of authority themselves. Yet she also feels a stranger and isolated in urban Italy, tied to waiting for her husband to come home in a way she probably was not in Kenya – another form of urban alienation.

This contrasts interestingly with Vittoria who is an urban character. She is fascinated by all of the artefacts in Marta’s apartment – the pictures, the elephant foot table, the music – and in the blacked up dance seems to be enjoying the idea of being part of a more ancient culture with clearly defined roles that contrasts so much with the confusing modern world where the emotional aspect of life is cut off and starved by perceived lack of importance over ‘physical’ goals like making money (which eventually in the stock exchange scenes seem extremely intangible and illusory in themselves). Vittoria seems to be wishing to be part of a society where the spirit and the body are more in harmony with each other, and so loses herself in the play acting.

Marta seems well aware that her urban Italian neighbours are having fun with playing Africans and learning about Africa but have no real connection to the country itself. Marta may be feeling that Vittoria and Anita are using Africa, the objects in Marta’s flat and Marta herself (as in the scene where her shooting skills are called upon later) as another casual distraction – an exotic but momentary distraction. Much as Anita taking Vittoria beyond the clouds on an airplane journey proves a transcendent, but fleeting, experience too. The presence of the two African pilots at the airport café also seems to link the two sequences together in filmic intent as well as in Vittoria’s mind.

That leads to Marta cutting short the African dance, and maybe the causal fun of Vittoria and Anita also touches a nerve, not just of seeing beloved objects and settings that you feel a deep connection to used in an offhand manner (although Vittoria and Anita likely didn’t mean any offence to Marta in their actions), but also that perhaps her own attitude could have been similar – projecting her own ideals and fears onto a nation and its people who she may soon realise have an entirely different set of ideas about what and who they are as a nation or a culture than she does.

This leads to Marta’s cruel comments when they are relaxing on the bed about the lack of ability of Africans to govern themselves, apart from a few who have been educated abroad (and therefore taught the ‘proper’ values of the modern world). These comments are likely based on Marta’s real feelings but perhaps the overly cruel and blunt nature of them is intended to shock her insulated, complacent friends with their comments about it being the correct thing for Africans to govern themselves – accepted wisdom, but perhaps something Vittoria or Anita have not really had to think about too deeply because it is not something that has directly impacted on them. It feels like more of an attack on insulated complacency of her companions than on Africans themselves which in most other ways she feels more of an, albeit landowning colonialist, connection to, as well as the comments containing an element of self comforting about the need for white rule to maintain order.

This also finds humorous expression in the scene which follows as Marta’s dog, a black poodle, makes another of what seem to be many attempts to escape from her apartment, and then when caught up to does a little standing-on-its-hind-legs show for Vittoria’s own private amusement!

For the film itself the connection to Africa is also a well made one – in Vittoria’s fascination with the distant country it makes explicit the comparison of the beautiful but hostile environment with Rome’s own achingly beautiful, but hostile to life in its own way, environment. At one point Anita wonders if Marta was ever scared of being attacked by a hippopotamus and Marta laughs and asks if Anita was ever scared of cars, as they are as much of Anita’s environment, and as dangerous, as hippopotamuses were for hers. I often think that this parallels with the later scene of the drunk stealing Piero’s flashy sports car and then being pulled dead from the lake in which it crashed. There are people in peril and dying even in this modern world as their inner turmoil overcomes their common sense to potentially dangerous situations.

It is another perfectly judged sequence in an absolutely magnificent film as a whole – raising a whole range of inflammatory and complex issues, sketching in all these contradictory attitudes and actions the characters show and, as throughout the rest of the film, showing the way emotions affect actions and attitudes without the film itself becoming over emotional in its perspective on the situation.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#93 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:19 am

It's important to note the objects in Marta's apartment, out of their original African context, are now inert, decoration, props, playthings, although still retain an impression of their actual potency, as well as that of an exotic 'other' - the rifle being used to shoot a balloon, rather than an antelope or charging elephant, say... There are several Africas as well as several Europes on display, Marta yearns for a place where she has meaning, self esteem, and relevance - that is HER Africa, 'home', not THE Africa - this opposed to her ethnic home Europe, where she now feels out of place, uncomfortable, undervalued... If you like, the 'jungle' of Africa is also paralleled also by the 'jungle' of the Roman Stock Exchange, places where different rules apply, an almost independent ecosystem with fluidly dynamic hierarchies and an underlying 'law of the jungle' tempered by rituals, rites, rules and regulations (the bare minute's silence on the death of one trader, the barely noticed bankrupting of another) - here Piero prevails, just, he is the coloniser, for now riding the wave of events, exploiting rather than being exploited, but his position is fragile, of the moment, evanescent... The characters of L'ECLISSE, most particularly Monica Vitti's Vittoria, move through these multifarious modern worlds with their many changing facets, conflicted between a sense of belonging and definition, and a sense of distancing and existential alienation......

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Sloper
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#94 Post by Sloper » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:40 pm

I've never really known what to make of this scene, but every one of the above posts throws more light on it. Fascinating discussion - if only you guys had done the commentary...

I don't find it offensive, if only because it's so funny, and because there's something poignant about Vittoria's reaction when Marta deflates the fun with her contempt. One of the best things about Antonioni is that, as well as being able to pack all those dense layers of meaning into a single scene, and to weave all these scenes together into a coherent whole, without quite giving us a 'conventional narrative', he also knows how to vary the tone, to keep the story alive as a human drama, with touches of humour and silliness amid all the significance and alienation. It's the fact that these films work so well as sheer entertainment that draws you in, and keeps you coming back.

Nothing
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#95 Post by Nothing » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:28 pm

J.Maki wrote:No matter how hard I try I cannot view the scene without wincing and being disappointed that someone as intelligent as Antonioni even shot, let alone included, the scene in the film.
blinkered, knee-jerk 21st century PC strikes again... And people wonder why nothing as good as L'Eclisse ever gets made these days...

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swo17
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#96 Post by swo17 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:33 pm


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ellipsis7
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#97 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:50 pm

Superb news, and L'AVVENTURA, already released in the theatrical new resto by Janus Films, will not be far behind...

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warren oates
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#98 Post by warren oates » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:53 pm

I hope this new transfer completely solves that annoying flicker problem that afflicted the old one.

oh yeah
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#99 Post by oh yeah » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:22 pm

Wonderful news. I've always thought that, slight flicker excepted, the Criterion DVD is one of the clearest, most pristine-looking DVD transfers of a B&W film, so the blu should be orgasm-inducing. (Well, maybe..)

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warren oates
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Re: 278 L'eclisse

#100 Post by warren oates » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:59 pm

Though it's not nearly as bad as the first run of the SD DVD, you can still sort of see the flicker on the HD transfer that's up on Criterion's Hulu channel, so I hope this new release will be an improvement on that too.

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