Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
I just checked that review. Honestly, his comments on the "softness" sound like he's seeing what I saw.
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
Svet also took a look at Dreams (sorry, too late to figure out a pun)
Edit. Svetdust and Tinsel too! (that was easy)
Edit. Svetdust and Tinsel too! (that was easy)
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- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
Ah, I see. I thought you were talking rather about the texture.
Criterion was known to boost their contrast in the DVD era and I wouldnt be surprised if they also did that on some of their BD releases.
Criterion was known to boost their contrast in the DVD era and I wouldnt be surprised if they also did that on some of their BD releases.
- MichaelB
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
There’s a pervasive assumption that “black and white” means “deep rich blacks to dazzlingly pure whites”, but this may of course not have been what was originally intended.tenia wrote:Ah, I see. I thought you were talking rather about the texture.
Criterion was known to boost their contrast in the DVD era and I wouldnt be surprised if they also did that on some of their BD releases.
I’ve given this example elsewhere, but when Institute Benjamenta was restored it was initially given a typically high-contrast grade, and most likely looked terrific to the untutored eye - but it definitely wasn’t what the director or their cinematographer were after, which was mostly greys and only very very occasional pure blacks and whites. Fortunately, they were (and, happily, still are) around to stamp their authority on the restoration, but how many other instances have there been of well-meaning technicians giving a grade that’s higher-contrast than the filmmakers intended? I suspect the answer may well be “quite a few”.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
No DVDBeaver review yet, but a user on the Blu-ray.com forum sez they talked to the resto company and Fanny and Alexander will be "partially" restored for some scenes, which as I understand it means the color timing may shift throughout the film-- that's got to be more annoying than a consistent approach for either temperature, right?
- HitchcockLang
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:43 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
Is it possible that in such a situation, someone overseeing color grading would be considering this and comparing it all in context for reference?domino harvey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:02 pmNo DVDBeaver review yet, but a user on the Blu-ray.com forum sez they talked to the resto company and Fanny and Alexander will be "partially" restored for some scenes, which as I understand it means the color timing may shift throughout the film-- that's got to be more annoying than a consistent approach for either temperature, right?
I'm not very sensitive to color. I remember thinking the new 4K of Playtime looked far too green to me from side-by-side caps but by itself in motion, I thought it looked great. Therefore, I agree with you that constantly comparing two different color grades as they switch back and forth would be much more alarming to even those of us who are less sensitive.
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
I've been listening to Michael Jackson records this past week, and when I read that, I immediately picture MJ in his deep black fedora, jacket and shoes along with his dazzling white socks, shirt and of course sparkling glove.
- Roger Ryan
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
Well, the good news here is that even a partial new scan means a completely new encode, which will hopefully fix the compression issues of the earlier release.domino harvey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:02 pmNo DVDBeaver review yet, but a user on the Blu-ray.com forum sez they talked to the resto company and Fanny and Alexander will be "partially" restored for some scenes, which as I understand it means the color timing may shift throughout the film-- that's got to be more annoying than a consistent approach for either temperature, right?
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
After the Rehearsal is very tinty, yet again. The 1.66 is the same as the Taran DVD, so I've never seen it any other way.
I don't have the Tartan DVD any more, but here's a not exact frame comparison to show the color difference
This is a grungy-looking movie, though, so I'm not sure it matters as much here as it does for Cries and Whispers or the Passion of Anna
I don't have the Tartan DVD any more, but here's a not exact frame comparison to show the color difference
This is a grungy-looking movie, though, so I'm not sure it matters as much here as it does for Cries and Whispers or the Passion of Anna
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
It almost reminds me of the blue-ish tint Eclair tends to give to some of their restorations. It doesn't look exactly the same than here, though, but there is a kind of redundancy in the way flesh tones vs colder elements are graded here, the 4th capture at Beaver especially.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
The top one has a digital wash from using an auto white balance tool on the “gray” floor and they goosed the highlights. Look at the color separation of the rug in the two images, the color has been washed out by the digital manipulation in the top image but has tonal quality consistent with the lighting of the scene in the second image.domino harvey wrote:After the Rehearsal is very tinty, yet again. The 1.66 is the same as the Taran DVD, so I've never seen it any other way.
I don't have the Tartan DVD any more, but here's a not exact frame comparison to show the color difference
This is a grungy-looking movie, though, so I'm not sure it matters as much here as it does for Cries and Whispers or the Passion of Anna
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- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:23 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
All These Women
I don't know if I can make myself watch this for a third time. It's so awful. Very pretty, but awful.
I don't know if I can make myself watch this for a third time. It's so awful. Very pretty, but awful.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
Yep. To anyone who hasn't seen it: no matter how bad you think it will be, it's actually worse
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
To further make myself the guy with bad opinions I like it and take the aesthetic fun as the soul of the ride.
- jsteffe
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
It's like 2-color Technicolor - all salmon and blue-green. I've never seen the film in 35mm, only on video, so I can't comment on what it has looked like in the past.domino harvey wrote: ↑Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:56 amAfter the Rehearsal is very tinty, yet again. The 1.66 is the same as the Taran DVD, so I've never seen it any other way.
I don't have the Tartan DVD any more, but here's a not exact frame comparison to show the color difference
This is a grungy-looking movie, though, so I'm not sure it matters as much here as it does for Cries and Whispers or the Passion of Anna
Last edited by jsteffe on Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:17 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
Fårö dokument @ Beaver, super excited to see this
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
I will say that Criterion has removed the only reason to watch All These Women-- to enjoy Bergman's lush and vivid use of color that resembles the palette found in MGM musicals-- with this restoration, so good work
EDIT: You know what, I'm going to walk this back, because doing a comparison shows this resto actually seems to have gotten it right! Mea culpa. Again, not an exact frame match, but Tartan DVD vs Criterion
Okay, so that's 1-4 on the color restos so far, I think
EDIT: You know what, I'm going to walk this back, because doing a comparison shows this resto actually seems to have gotten it right! Mea culpa. Again, not an exact frame match, but Tartan DVD vs Criterion
Okay, so that's 1-4 on the color restos so far, I think
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- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:49 am
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
Now I have to watch it.domino harvey wrote: ↑Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:35 pmYep. To anyone who hasn't seen it: no matter how bad you think it will be, it's actually worse
- jsteffe
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
All These Women is not the worst movie ever made, just one of the least entertaining. It is insufferably arch and unfunny, albeit with stylized sets and costumes in color. The disappointment is all the more bitter because Bergman made some good-to-outstanding comedies before this. You come away with the impression that he hated himself and hated his viewers when he made this film. If forced to choose, I'd rather watch Troll 2 because at least that is fun-bad.ari101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:41 pmNow I have to watch it.domino harvey wrote: ↑Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:35 pmYep. To anyone who hasn't seen it: no matter how bad you think it will be, it's actually worse
But we will all watch it again because it is Bergman's first film in color, and it's a spiffy new restoration. And we will feel deflated and frustrated afterward.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
The best thing I can say about it is that it's mercifully short (though it will be slightly longer here now that it's no longer sped up for PAL!)
- jsteffe
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
As soon as I receive the set, I will watch a double feature of The Serpent's Egg and All These Women to get the gruesome business out of the way and see which of the two is worse. Then I will be free to explore the rest of the set on its own terms, liberated.
- dda1996a
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
The Serpent's Egg is far from awful. It's not very Bergman, but it is an interesting film even if it has many flaws
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- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:23 pm
Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema
The Touch is a lot worse than Serpent’s Egg