528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
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- Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:10 pm
Re: The Last Command - best picture oscar nominee?
Does anyone know why "The Last Command" was removed from the list of 1928 Best Picture Oscar nominees? Many old sources listed it as a nominee, but it seems in 1975 the Academy removed it from the list. I found a few sites like this and this that mention the removal but no reason is given. Anyone know the story behind this?
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
I'm working my way through this as well, and I was amazed to find myself bored ten minutes into Tag's essay- some of the background information about von Sternberg's entry into film was new and interesting to me, but as analysis of the movies in the set it seemed like it didn't have much to say. Did make me want to read Louise Brooks' diaries, since a lot of the most interesting stuff came from her.HerrSchreck wrote:The one clunker of the set has got to be-- for me-- Tag's visual essay. To me, the most uninspired and flatlining stream-of consciousness meandering which reveals little about the films or von himself, and, instead, merely a certain modicum of insight into the way Tag thinks when he watches a beautifully photographed silent film made by a man whose decadence is beyond the realm of his own experience. I have profound respect for Tag, his work on Ford, Ophuls, and many others, but this fell flat... with the most painfully obvious comments whispered with an almost religious intensity.
With a body of work as exceptional as Tag's, I guess not getting personally rocked to the socks by all 100% of his efforts is only normal and quite expected. I just had high hopes, von being von, and Tag being Tag.
In watching the Last Command, I was struck by the almost postmodern construction of the narrative, which seemed like a fairly straightforward melodrama about the Russian Revolution bracketed by a framing device that seemed deliberately to undercut the viewers' involvement with what was (to judge by the movies' version of Hollywood) a Russian picture churned out by craftsmen who made them by the dozens and actors who viewed the job with no more artistry than a steelworker in a factory.
It cuts the knees out from Jannings in a way that perversely makes him a more striking actor; he generally acts so hard that it's impossible to forget that you're watching an actor performing, but the almost Brechtian framing reminds the viewer of that anyway- and even as a general, his character seems to be putting on a show all the time. A naturalistic performance would have been nonsense in this context, and his self-absorbed intensity means the vicious slams the movie seems to make on the delusions of actors never seem to touch him.
- Yojimbo
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Just received my set today, just in time for post-Christmas turkey excess viewing!
I can't wait: I haven't seen any of these before and I'm a big fan of (most of) his Dietricks and such as 'The Shanghai Gesture'
(perhaps I'll have a Sternberg Talk/Don't Talk Mini-Festival' to celebrate its arrival)
I can't wait: I haven't seen any of these before and I'm a big fan of (most of) his Dietricks and such as 'The Shanghai Gesture'
(perhaps I'll have a Sternberg Talk/Don't Talk Mini-Festival' to celebrate its arrival)
- JAP
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 8:17 am
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Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Winner (ex-aequo) of the Best Box category of the Il Cinema Ritrovato Dvd Awards 2011 (complete list, in italian)
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
I cannot believe I let this set languish on my shelf for nearly four years. These three films are just tremendous, and of the box sets I've watched from Criterion, this is the only set that comes close to Three Colors in the overall quality/rating of the films, so in terms of films alone, this is probably their second best box set.
I watched most of Sternberg's 30s films a decade ago, and haven't really seen anything of his since. I remember that Blue Angel and Morocco were very good, but Shanghai Express was the true standout--these three films blow all of them out of the water.
Underworld is superb, a proto gangster genre entry that's much better than most of the early thirties gangster efforts that get overpraised all to often. I enjoy all of those films, but like the Universal horrors of the era, hardly any rise above excellent&entertaining into the great realm. Underworld actually ranks up there with Scarface, Roaring Twenties and White Heat as one of the finest early exemplars of the genre characteristics, it's a shame this title has been overlooked for so many decades. The great performances, outstanding camera work and staging are all lovely, I loved the plotting and narrative drive of the film, just outstanding.
And then The Last Command is a true masterpiece. The narrative design of the film is bold, it incorporates self-reflexive critique of the process of filmmaking and the 'class' system of hollywood within its classic frame story/flashback structure; Sternberg thematically ties the proletariat of Hollywood to the downtrodden of Russia and the generals/tsars of Russia with the directors of Hollywood, and in doing so makes both men complete circuits of class status within his circular narrative. Emil Jannings' over-the-top scenery chewing performance is mesmerizing, though William Powell's deliberately underplayed work sometimes feels like it went a little too far in the contrast-with-Jannings direction. But the film is Jannings through and through...except when Sternberg's fabulous camera work, staging and lighting design is even more breathtaking. The long shot when the men receive their costume is brilliantly conceived and thematically potent, as the visuals convey all the crushing machinery and anonymity of Hollywood and the irony of real experience being contrasted against 'movie-movie' inventions--interestingly, this shot also made me connect Hollywood to the Military almost instantly. I'm not sure if that is because of the way Sternberg's work has been incorporated in the iconography of war films that came after, but I suspect that it is, because I feel like I have seen echoes of this shot in other films that came after of men being mustered and equipped through a military machine.
I was almost reluctant to watch Docks of New York, because surely any film would be a let down after The Last Command. But it was not. It was equally brilliant and stunningly different. The film is like Sunrise or Seventh Heaven by way of Port of Shadows. Gritty, passionate, and pulpy combine into a fantasia that feels oddly steeped in realism. I think you could say it's a mediation between romanesque "reality" and romantique "fantasy". In a sense, that's what Hollywood is always trying to do, a "magical realism," but it is so rarely pulled off, and even more rarely is it pulled off this perfectly. And don't get me wrong, I don't mean the film embraces fantasy or magic or anything like that, just that the stories I'm talking about are stories that catch the day-to-day magic of a breath, a beat, a lifting of the heart. That is what The Docks of New York is, pure human yearning. Phenomenal.
I watched most of Sternberg's 30s films a decade ago, and haven't really seen anything of his since. I remember that Blue Angel and Morocco were very good, but Shanghai Express was the true standout--these three films blow all of them out of the water.
Underworld is superb, a proto gangster genre entry that's much better than most of the early thirties gangster efforts that get overpraised all to often. I enjoy all of those films, but like the Universal horrors of the era, hardly any rise above excellent&entertaining into the great realm. Underworld actually ranks up there with Scarface, Roaring Twenties and White Heat as one of the finest early exemplars of the genre characteristics, it's a shame this title has been overlooked for so many decades. The great performances, outstanding camera work and staging are all lovely, I loved the plotting and narrative drive of the film, just outstanding.
And then The Last Command is a true masterpiece. The narrative design of the film is bold, it incorporates self-reflexive critique of the process of filmmaking and the 'class' system of hollywood within its classic frame story/flashback structure; Sternberg thematically ties the proletariat of Hollywood to the downtrodden of Russia and the generals/tsars of Russia with the directors of Hollywood, and in doing so makes both men complete circuits of class status within his circular narrative. Emil Jannings' over-the-top scenery chewing performance is mesmerizing, though William Powell's deliberately underplayed work sometimes feels like it went a little too far in the contrast-with-Jannings direction. But the film is Jannings through and through...except when Sternberg's fabulous camera work, staging and lighting design is even more breathtaking. The long shot when the men receive their costume is brilliantly conceived and thematically potent, as the visuals convey all the crushing machinery and anonymity of Hollywood and the irony of real experience being contrasted against 'movie-movie' inventions--interestingly, this shot also made me connect Hollywood to the Military almost instantly. I'm not sure if that is because of the way Sternberg's work has been incorporated in the iconography of war films that came after, but I suspect that it is, because I feel like I have seen echoes of this shot in other films that came after of men being mustered and equipped through a military machine.
I was almost reluctant to watch Docks of New York, because surely any film would be a let down after The Last Command. But it was not. It was equally brilliant and stunningly different. The film is like Sunrise or Seventh Heaven by way of Port of Shadows. Gritty, passionate, and pulpy combine into a fantasia that feels oddly steeped in realism. I think you could say it's a mediation between romanesque "reality" and romantique "fantasy". In a sense, that's what Hollywood is always trying to do, a "magical realism," but it is so rarely pulled off, and even more rarely is it pulled off this perfectly. And don't get me wrong, I don't mean the film embraces fantasy or magic or anything like that, just that the stories I'm talking about are stories that catch the day-to-day magic of a breath, a beat, a lifting of the heart. That is what The Docks of New York is, pure human yearning. Phenomenal.
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
To be honest, I may even prefer these silents over the Dietrich films. Not necessarily better, but different in a way that suits my tastes (less camp, more grittiness). Von Sternberg's visual talents seem to blossom more in silent films too.
OT, I still would love to see Thunderbolt, which I believe is more or less an early talkie remake of Underworld. Supposedly, he does try his best to experiment with sound, and there are a few critics like Jonathan Rosenbaum who actually prefer it.
OT, I still would love to see Thunderbolt, which I believe is more or less an early talkie remake of Underworld. Supposedly, he does try his best to experiment with sound, and there are a few critics like Jonathan Rosenbaum who actually prefer it.
- Michael Kerpan
- Spelling Bee Champeen
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Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
The films in this set (especially Docks) are pretty near perfect.hearthesilence wrote:To be honest, I may even prefer these silents over the Dietrich films. Not necessarily better, but different in a way that suits my tastes (less camp, more grittiness). Von Sternberg's visual talents seem to blossom more in silent films too.
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Those were some very nicely presented swoonings by movielocke--hear hear.
The only thing I take exception to is the tagging of Sternberg in the following set of comments to 'locke with the label of "camp." Less of it, more of it--I simply don't see any of it in Sternberg. Not the slightest shred of it-- I see the very wry, sly, sneaky and brilliant humor of a rare blistering pedigree. But I don't see camp.
Camp isn't always easy to define, but I always know it when I see it. The dudes dancing around Petula Clark (when they're not with the female partners) when she sang "Downtown" on the Dean Martin show in '67-- that's the very incarnation of ex post facto camp. I see nothing even vaguely resembling camp in Sternberg. The level of sophistication in the humor found in his work is far too high, and the insights into the behavior of humankind are far too scathing.
It's a tagging of his work that I see from time to time, and I find it hugely off the mark.
The only thing I take exception to is the tagging of Sternberg in the following set of comments to 'locke with the label of "camp." Less of it, more of it--I simply don't see any of it in Sternberg. Not the slightest shred of it-- I see the very wry, sly, sneaky and brilliant humor of a rare blistering pedigree. But I don't see camp.
Camp isn't always easy to define, but I always know it when I see it. The dudes dancing around Petula Clark (when they're not with the female partners) when she sang "Downtown" on the Dean Martin show in '67-- that's the very incarnation of ex post facto camp. I see nothing even vaguely resembling camp in Sternberg. The level of sophistication in the humor found in his work is far too high, and the insights into the behavior of humankind are far too scathing.
It's a tagging of his work that I see from time to time, and I find it hugely off the mark.
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Scathing is an excellent word to use Von Sternberg. Yet in this set, I feel like it only really applies to The Last Command. I've only gone through the set once, but the endings of Underworld and Docks of New York seem almost romantic and selfless in a way that none of the Dietrich films I've seen are. I just got finished watching the Glamor Collection, though, and its certainly an apt way to describe those films.HerrSchreck wrote:Those were some very nicely presented swoonings by movielocke--hear hear.
The only thing I take exception to is the tagging of Sternberg in the following set of comments to 'locke with the label of "camp." Less of it, more of it--I simply don't see any of it in Sternberg. Not the slightest shred of it-- I see the very wry, sly, sneaky and brilliant humor of a rare blistering pedigree. But I don't see camp.
Camp isn't always easy to define, but I always know it when I see it. The dudes dancing around Petula Clark (when they're not with the female partners) when she sang "Downtown" on the Dean Martin show in '67-- that's the very incarnation of ex post facto camp. I see nothing even vaguely resembling camp in Sternberg. The level of sophistication in the humor found in his work is far too high, and the insights into the behavior of humankind are far too scathing.
It's a tagging of his work that I see from time to time, and I find it hugely off the mark.
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
THE DEVIL IS A WOMAN scathes to the degree that I take bath in nourishing, vitamin-E rich lotions, liniments and essential oils after your average viewing. Scathed to the bone, me.
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
I dunno. When I look at Sontag's "Notes on Camp" with Sternberg in mind, the designation fits like a glove (and it's important to emphasize that the designation is not derogatory nor does "camp" = "kitsch"):
Then again…"1. To start very generally: Camp is a certain mode of aestheticism. It is one way of seeing the world as an aesthetic phenomenon. That way, the way of Camp, is not in terms of beauty, but in terms of the degree of artifice, of stylization."
"8. Camp is a vision of the world in terms of style -- but a particular kind of style. It is the love of the exaggerated, the "off," of things-being-what-they-are-not."
"10. Camp sees everything in quotation marks. It's not a lamp, but a "lamp"; not a woman, but a "woman." To perceive Camp in objects and persons is to understand Being-as-Playing-a-Role. It is the farthest extension, in sensibility, of the metaphor of life as theater."
"11. Camp is the triumph of the epicene style. (The convertibility of "man" and "woman," "person" and "thing.") But all style, that is, artifice, is, ultimately, epicene. Life is not stylish. Neither is nature."
"16. ...the Camp sensibility is one that is alive to a double sense in which some things can be taken. But this is not the familiar split-level construction of a literal meaning, on the one hand, and a symbolic meaning, on the other. It is the difference, rather, between the thing as meaning something, anything, and the thing as pure artifice."
"25. The hallmark of Camp is the spirit of extravagance. Camp is a woman walking around in a dress made of three million feathers. Camp is the paintings of Carlo Crivelli, with their real jewels and trompe-l'oeil insects and cracks in the masonry. Camp is the outrageous aestheticism of Sternberg's six American movies with Dietrich, all six, but especially the last, The Devil Is a Woman. . . . "
"28. ...Camp is the attempt to do something extraordinary. But extraordinary in the sense, often, of being special, glamorous."
Sternberg is far too self-aware to be too self-serious. But camp is typically, mostly, in the eye of the beholder. And there's more to "camp" than Sontag's definition (which repeatedly contradicts itself)."23. In naïve, or pure, Camp, the essential element is seriousness, a seriousness that fails. Of course, not all seriousness that fails can be redeemed as Camp. Only that which has the proper mixture of the exaggerated, the fantastic, the passionate, and the naïve."
"26. Camp is art that proposes itself seriously, but cannot be taken altogether seriously because it is "too much." Titus Andronicus and Strange Interlude are almost Camp, or could be played as Camp. The public manner and rhetoric of de Gaulle, often, are pure Camp."
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Yes I've read and heard this sentiment before and of course disagree with it entirely. The explanation-definition is itself almost camp.
- R0lf
- Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Sontag also later recanted classifying Sternberg as camp (I think that is detailed in the WHAT IS CAMP? thread on this board?).
And on a different subject: can anyone tell me if there are any fully formed Sternberg movies post Crime and Punishment other than Shanghai Gesture and Anatahan? I tried Macao but I didn't discern any Sternberg in that and near as I can tell from IMDb the other movies fall into the same boat. It would be wonderful if I was missing something!
And on a different subject: can anyone tell me if there are any fully formed Sternberg movies post Crime and Punishment other than Shanghai Gesture and Anatahan? I tried Macao but I didn't discern any Sternberg in that and near as I can tell from IMDb the other movies fall into the same boat. It would be wonderful if I was missing something!
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
I think there's a fair amount of von Sternberg in Macao, but besides that Jet Pilot is pretty clearly von Sternberg in experimental mode and Sergeant Madden reveals him well.
- bainbridgezu
- Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:54 pm
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- Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:46 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
What's do folks think about this title going OOP? My dream is that this indicates an upcoming BD release. (Didn't the L'ECLISSE DVD go OOP just before the BD announcement was made?) Does Criterion generally make an announcement when a title is about to become permanently unavailable?
If it's OOP for good, I want to grab the DVD on Amazon while they still have them.
If it's OOP for good, I want to grab the DVD on Amazon while they still have them.
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
But why would the DVD set go out of print before a BD announcement, considering that it would almost surely be a BD version of the existing set, not a dual-format version to replace the DVD set?
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- Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:46 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Good point. With L'ECLISSE they were phasing out the DVD-only edition for the dual-format version. So this set is most likely out of stock or perhaps their licenses for the films have expired?
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Hard to say what's going on, but it might be worth asking Criterion if it's really OOP. It could be that it's temporarily OOP while they produce a new run (though in that case would they list it as OOP or just
"temporarily out of stock"?), or maybe they couldn't renew the rights for some reason.
Anyone who wants to be sure they can get this set at a reasonable price should probably act quickly, though. I see it's already out of stock or not even listed at all the regular retailers I checked, though there is one Like New for ~$70 from an Amazon seller, and one New one from another seller for the same price.
"temporarily out of stock"?), or maybe they couldn't renew the rights for some reason.
Anyone who wants to be sure they can get this set at a reasonable price should probably act quickly, though. I see it's already out of stock or not even listed at all the regular retailers I checked, though there is one Like New for ~$70 from an Amazon seller, and one New one from another seller for the same price.
- sir_luke
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:55 pm
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
I emailed Mulvaney at the beginning of the week, but I still haven't received a response (not expecting one today, of course).
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
While other Paramount films have gotten the upgrade, I'd be shocked if this is getting a blu-ray upgrade. As amazing as I think the set would be, they've upgraded one box set, the certainly more commercially viable Cassavetes box. I assume it's a packaging change, but I guess we'll see.
- Der Spieler
- Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:05 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
If it indeed is OOP, I urge anyone who hasn't bought it yet to purchase a copy. It truly is a gorgeous set of must-see movies.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
I think it's one of the best box sets criterion's ever produced. Up there with the three colors trilogy.
- Emak-Bakia
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:48 am
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
Nobody panic!
The out-of-print news finally spurred me to attempt to purchase a replacement slipbox for this set, since mine's a little dinged up and is mildly bothersome to me. I got a refund from the criterion.com store along with an email stating that the set is indeed OOP. A follow-up email asking if there would be a re-release or blu-ray yielded this response:
"The title itself will not remain out-of-print, but we are working on a new packaging configuration; I'm not yet sure where we're going to land!"
The out-of-print news finally spurred me to attempt to purchase a replacement slipbox for this set, since mine's a little dinged up and is mildly bothersome to me. I got a refund from the criterion.com store along with an email stating that the set is indeed OOP. A follow-up email asking if there would be a re-release or blu-ray yielded this response:
"The title itself will not remain out-of-print, but we are working on a new packaging configuration; I'm not yet sure where we're going to land!"
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg
It sounds like we might be waiting some time for the eventual repackage! (And there's no way it will look this good.)